BJJ points system

[Tcell]

When we're just rolling we usually try to sub the other guy.

In a competition you're going for the tap (imo).

So I like to think most people still go for the sub.

Even if you do play a points game to win you've got to take the dominant/controlling position,which if it were a VT style fight would give you better options for GnP finishing the fight.

Reasons for stalling?

Being gassed/outclassed/waiting for the right time.

When taking the back I thought you only got the points if you got both hooks in.

This is based on my own massive experience of 4 months BJJ
So feel free to point out my errors.

Cheers Jez

[CKD]

Getting your hooks in offers you more control. A Judo throw will not always end the fight so you need to figure what to do afterwards. A good BJJ player should have enouph skill to throw an average joe though. I think the point sytem is good since it produces good habits for real fighting and vale tudo.

[IPON]

Just a question for everyone how long are the matches (and periods in the match). If there is obvious stalling, are points taken away or the players restart etc.

[CKD]

Depends on who is setting up the tournament. Rorion tournaments are good, they have no time limit and the ways you win are through submission or getting ahead by 12 points.

[IPON]

the ways you win are through submission or getting ahead by 12 points.

Interesting its like the technical fall in wrestling ... makes sense. But Here is the question if it is unlimited does that promote stalling. Actually a better question, at the end of 30 minutes or so (for the unlimited for example) there is so much fatique is it truely a win for technique or just conditioning or, in some small cases luck

[Mr. Miyagi]

By Rorion's rules, Wallid would have won the fight against Shoji. But he got TKO'd instead. Let's see, he had I think 3 takedowns, at least 2 guard passes, and 2 mounts. That's 20-0. Didn't help him worth a damn at the end.

Jeremy Horn was killing Frank Shamrock by this system too, before he got subbed by a kneebar.

The bjj points are a good guideline but don't tell the whole story if strikes could be allowed too.

I always took points into consideration when doing bjj tournaments. If I was ahead by 2 and the guy was in my guard, I'd try to keep him there rather than try to sweep or sub and risk getting passed. You can keep the guy there and look like you're busy, even if you're not. Obviously you have to open up here and there, not hold onto his gi at the wrist, look as if you might do an armbar or triangle, pretend to scope out the kimura, fake a sweep, and so on.

You can get points for taking the back with a figure four hold as well as hooks. I've never seen someone establish back control without using their feet and can't imagine that you could keep another trained opponent in that position without hooks or figure 4, so holding with the arms alone isn't really an issue.

[wardancer]

The points system in BJJ will kill it off as an effective real fighting art.

Discuss!

What for?
You just gonna waste people time.
You have never fought in BJJ...as usual..why should I bother explaining something such basic?
If you can't understand that, what should I bother?
"There are many ways to score points in BJJ. Each represents a positional change that would prove advantageous in a real fight. By training and competing under this system of points, the strategy that has proven so effective in real combat is ingrained into the training and grappling habits of the students, making their everyday randori training training very good preparation for a real fight. The most decisive way to win is by submission" BJJ Theory and Thechniques Book.

[CKD]

Interesting its like the technical fall in wrestling ... makes sense. But Here is the question if it is unlimited does that promote stalling. Actually a better question, at the end of 30 minutes or so (for the unlimited for example) there is so much fatique is it truely a win for technique or just conditioning or, in some small cases luck

The rules force you to finish of your opponent because you can not just let the clock run out. Its just like how in the older mma matches they would sometimes go quicker because you did not have to survive the round you had to finish him.

[Thai Bri]

What for?
You just gonna waste people time.
You have never fought in BJJ...as usual..why should I bother explaining something such basic?
If you can't understand that, what should I bother?
"There are many ways to score points in BJJ. Each represents a positional change that would prove advantageous in a real fight. By training and competing under this system of points, the strategy that has proven so effective in real combat is ingrained into the training and grappling habits of the students, making their everyday randori training training very good preparation for a real fight. The most decisive way to win is by submission" BJJ Theory and Thechniques Book.

You illiterate little man.

By the way, just because a BJJ book (or any book on anything really) claims something, it does not necessarily mean that it is fact.

[J Rockwell]

I think it depends on the instructor (at an early stage) and the individual as to the direction your particular BJJ game will take. If you become so obsessed with playing for points that you disregard aggressively working for submission, then that's a bad thing. But it doesn't have to be that way, and I don't think it generally is.

Recently one of my training partners and I started keeping track of points more tightly to help train for upcoming competitions. We still are going for submissions very aggressively, but now I also fight harder to prevent sweeps, reversals, and takedowns that I might otherwise give up - I don't want him to get those points. This will actually help me in my MMA training, as it makes me more aggressive and less willing to fight off my back.

Playing for points also instills the idea of establishing a solid control position, THEN working for submission. You have to establish control for 3 seconds to score in most tourneys. This makes you take your time, be aware of your base and positioning, then begin working for a submission. This is how I try to fight MMA and how I would want to street fight as well. Positioning is not the end all be all, but if you have the right mentality, playing for points can improve your submission game, not detract from it.

Best,

Jeff

[wardancer]

At least, I quote whatever information I think you could understand simple basic stuff straight out of a book. You wanted to discuss BJJ rules and its relevance to real fight and that was an appropriate quotation.
Hum, YES I do talk from experience..I do compete in BJJ...
Let me see if I can help you out...
In BJJ, you get rewarded for sweep, passing the guard, side control, mount, knee on the stomach, back control with hooks...Such techniques provide you with better position to set up your chokes, locks, strikes (if you wanted to)..however certains postions get more points. It is quiet obvious that a side control should get less point than a mount..but the mount should be equal to rear control with hooks..
Such BJJ points system works for me...
What is your problem with the BJJ rules anyway?
You might want to point out something you do agree with...but I suspect you do not know BJJ rules as you don't train BJJ.
Do you train BJJ?
Let me guess...Hum..you might want to say that sport BJJ will be the death of BJJ..that sport MA is worthless..that only reality based MA are the only God send truth or more like the only Thai Bri send truth..Muy Thai rules and every other MA sucks...I will flame as soonest I have run out of ideas due to the fact that my level of ignorance is only equalled by my arrogance...............


Anyway, just as usual you just trolling for excuse to start flames and let this thread degenerate. So be it, I have just finished one with your mate Choke UK!

[wardancer]

I think it depends on the instructor (at an early stage) and the individual as to the direction your particular BJJ game will take. If you become so obsessed with playing for points that you disregard aggressively working for submission, then that's a bad thing. But it doesn't have to be that way, and I don't think it generally is.

. This is how I try to fight MMA and how I would want to street fight as well. Positioning is not the end all be all, but if you have the right mentality, playing for points can improve your submission game, not detract from it.

Best,

Jeff

Well explained Jeff, points for changing to better position should not distract you from submitting the opponent...It should be there to encourage you to get to a better position from where you have more submission moves options.
It is easier to submit from the mount compare to the side control therefore less points for side control..

[wardancer]

The bjj points are a good guideline but don't tell the whole story if strikes could be allowed too.

.

I think rear control with hooks should be awarded more points that any other techniques because in reality that you mean your back is open to nasty strikes.

If somebody mount you, you still have a fair change to put him back in guard or half guard..UPA...(evasive techniques) you can use.

I just think it is a bad habits for grappler to go 'turtle' position.

[wardancer]

Just a question for everyone how long are the matches (and periods in the match). If there is obvious stalling, are points taken away or the players restart etc.

My matches are 5 minutes..if there is stalling, you get a first warming..and then disqualified.
The only restart we get is we get out of the mats.
If you get out of the mats in purpose to 'avoid' a submission you are disqualifed..that why it is so important to keep the fighters away from the borders (to avoid such drama).
If they get to close to the borders..then fight is stop...both fighters stay in the same position 'locked-in' and the referee has to 'drag' them across back to the middle of the mats. It is important that they keep the same position as they restart. You do not want you hard efforts on a submision hold disapear because your opponent is getting to close to the borders (in purpose or not)!
I love that referee dragging you across while both fighters are locked-in, it just remind me of Pit Bulls fighting

[Thai Bri]

As a competitor in BJJ that makes you the person LEAST able to fully answer the question.

Philistine