I Have Proof!!!!!!!!!

[DrAgOn-T]

I have hard, video evidence of the mighty kung fu falling to the far surperior mixed martial artist.

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

link to the video is near the bottom of the page.

Don't reply with that crap of, OH IT'S FAKE KUNG FU, because we all know its bull. on this same website, second page I believe, there is also wing chun falling to dave benatue (judo/wrestling)

[m.artist]

ya i've watched this a few times.
the kung fu get's his ass handed to him, and his arm broken
it was sweet

[pstevens]

I have hard, video evidence of the mighty kung fu falling to the far surperior mixed martial artist.

Hmmm... I watched Dan Hendersen KO Renzo Gracie. Does that mean wrestling is better than GJJ?

[CKD]

Hmmm... I watched Dan Hendersen KO Renzo Gracie. Does that mean wrestling is better than GJJ?

Hate to break it to you but Dan henderson studies bjj. Thats how he negated Renzos attacks. No wrestler in mma goes in with just wrestling they all study bjj.

[DrAgOn-T]

nowadays everyone trains in everything. The only exception i can think of to this rule is Tank Abbott, which is why i think he is the coolest damn thing since the invention of water. I hear he is going to fight a bunch of locals in tiajuana...HELL YES, I want to see him beat some people before he retires, which can't be far away, he can't really hang with todays competition.

[JaredExtreme]

The dim mak video is good for a laugh. I guess the the BJJ white belts were better at resisting the death touch than the teacher's own black belts.

[chris davis 200]

as far as i know that guy knew about as much kung fu as a school kid that watched 'rush hour' n thinks he is Jacki Chan!

He quite obviously didnt have a clue how to fight.

Saying that kung fu doesnt work or was beated is not correct! Kung fu is not a style it is the term used to describe the chinese martial art styles. i could list them all but there are over 150 DISTINCT SEPERATE STYLES - so it would take a while!!

These styles include, Chinese Wrestling (very very similar to Judo), methods similar to Muay Thai Boxing, a vast array of styles that incorporate all ranges of combat including groundwork and a bunch of other stuff besides.

Maybe you could find out WHAT MARTIAL STYLE this guy practiced - as kung fu is not a style, but judging by the lack of ANY fighting ability whatsoever i am guessing it was made up bullshit!

Nice to see some pleb with a superiority complex get his ass handed to him though! when will these assholes learn?!?

cheers
chris

[pstevens]

Hate to break it to you but Dan henderson studies bjj. Thats how he negated Renzos attacks. No wrestler in mma goes in with just wrestling they all study bjj.

Ah yes, that's quite true... I guess MMA beats BJJ as well.

[wardancer]

I have hard, video evidence of the mighty kung fu falling to the far surperior mixed martial artist.

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

link to the video is near the bottom of the page.

Don't reply with that crap of, OH IT'S FAKE KUNG FU, because we all know its bull. on this same website, second page I believe, there is also wing chun falling to dave benatue (judo/wrestling)

HI Dragon-t,
Do not over-ride because of the video evidence.
It is only a question of time before Kung Fu guys make a good team and start competing at a serious level/standard.
The famous Brazilian Top Team that is so sucessfull is actually made of a team of Brazilians that goes recruiting good 'prospects' from Brazilian BJJ Dojo and train them in NHB/MMA/Vale Tudo events.
I do not think the Kung Fu dudes have cacht up on that one so far?
China wages/salaries is so small, I am sure there is heaps of willing chineses that will 'fight' in paid event like UFC, Pride. They just need a good manager?
Kyokushin Karate Team defeated the K1 Challenge team the other day (4 fight under K1 rules and 3 under Kyokushin karate rules, Filho (Karate) won against Bonjaaski(K1 2004 World Champ). Filho also defeated 3 others K1 world champions prior and that says a lot about a MA team that get together to compete in any event afterall?

[CKD]

Ah yes, that's quite true... I guess MMA beats BJJ as well.

MMA is not really a style. Its more of a form of compitetion.

[pstevens]

MMA is not really a style. Its more of a form of compitetion.

Oh yeah, I forgot... Only BJJ can add Muay Thai, Sambo and Boxing and then still be called BJJ. Good point.

[CHOKE UK]

Chris davis, the point being made is that Kung fu generally wasnt really up to the job.

Kung fu is an umbrella term, but the same applies.

Anyone with decent mma knowlege can walk into the average kung fu type class and do what that guy did!

I have seen it many times!
I am no Rickson but i have done it to instructors!

These kind of mismatches, i find facinating and are the most informative learning curves you will ever see!

But why do people make excuses for them?

As dragon says...proof!
What cant speak cant lie....unlike "prophets of ineffective martial art!!!"

[Mr. Miyagi]

Dan Henderson definitely trains in bjj and submission wrestling. But he didn't really need to negate Renzo's attacks and use any bjj defenses, his bjj knowledge was not a factor in that fight. He KO'd him from the clinch, he already knew how to keep things standing with Renzo, and he trains in boxing. Even if he had never trained bjj he would have still KO'd Renzo. Even if Igor V never trained in sub wrestling he would have KO'd Bueno. Coleman doesn't train too much in subs but it didn't matter as he KO'd Goes almost immedietely. Gomi KO'd Ralph almost instantly, and it didn't matter what he knew about bjj, that KO had nothing to do with bjj knowledge from Gomi. Pulver knows about defending subs too, but he didn't need to know anything about that when he KO'd John Lewis.
Bustamante is a top fighter but it wasn't Quinton's bjj knowledge that gave him that quick KO, it was aggressiveness.
Kenny Monday definitely knew very little about bjj when he beat the crap out of John Lewis.
Top fighters train in bjj and sub wrestling but sometimes they don't need it against bjj guys. How was Renzo going to deal with Henderson? He wouldn't be able to take him down, Henderson could keep the fight standing as long as he needed, Henderson could outstrike him, and Renzo probably wouldn't sub Henderson even if Henderson CHOSE to take him down.
The bjj revolution ended a long time ago and even before it, it was possible for a tough fighter who had the ability to keep things standing to KO a bjj fighter. Severn could have kept Royce on his feet but he didn't know what was going to happen to him on the ground. Shamrock is a dumbass and went right in Royce's guard, despite knowing that he could keep things standing and punch a lot harder than Royce.

[CKD]

Dan Henderson definitely trains in bjj and submission wrestling. But he didn't really need to negate Renzo's attacks and use any bjj defenses, his bjj knowledge was not a factor in that fight. He KO'd him from the clinch, he already knew how to keep things standing with Renzo, and he trains in boxing. Even if he had never trained bjj he would have still KO'd Renzo. Even if Igor V never trained in sub wrestling he would have KO'd Bueno. Coleman doesn't train too much in subs but it didn't matter as he KO'd Goes almost immedietely. Gomi KO'd Ralph almost instantly, and it didn't matter what he knew about bjj, that KO had nothing to do with bjj knowledge from Gomi. Pulver knows about defending subs too, but he didn't need to know anything about that when he KO'd John Lewis.
Bustamante is a top fighter but it wasn't Quinton's bjj knowledge that gave him that quick KO, it was aggressiveness.
Kenny Monday definitely knew very little about bjj when he beat the crap out of John Lewis.
Top fighters train in bjj and sub wrestling but sometimes they don't need it against bjj guys. How was Renzo going to deal with Henderson? He wouldn't be able to take him down, Henderson could keep the fight standing as long as he needed, Henderson could outstrike him, and Renzo probably wouldn't sub Henderson even if Henderson CHOSE to take him down.
The bjj revolution ended a long time ago and even before it, it was possible for a tough fighter who had the ability to keep things standing to KO a bjj fighter. Severn could have kept Royce on his feet but he didn't know what was going to happen to him on the ground. Shamrock is a dumbass and went right in Royce's guard, despite knowing that he could keep things standing and punch a lot harder than Royce.

The defenses against takedowns are identical in bjj and wrestling but I need to rant and i love discussing fighters losses. I notice Renzo in that fight suffered from a lack of strategy. He was bit desperate to take him down. Henderson was expecting it. He should have kickboxed with him a bit to get him relaxed and then take him down. I have a friend who has watched the Sperry vale tudo videos and its amazing how from that information he can point out why bjj fighters lost due to not following the principles of bjj and the road map Sperry made. Ralph made a mistake and paid for it. But personally I think there is going to be a rematch and Ralph will win. Quinton vs Bustamante was a split decision not a knockout.

[Mr. Miyagi]

My bad, I meant Busta vs Henderson, which was a KO and a half.

Actually, I think the bjj gameplan is flawed. As an example, that fight when Renzo fought that fat Japanese guy a few Prides ago, don't remember his name and don't care what it was anyway. Anyway, they stood there hugging each other, Renzo did some punches and kicks but they did absolutely no damage at all. The guy just basically stood there, and Renzo was not able to take him down or hurt him in any way at all. If that guy had any striking ability, like Henderson, Renzo would have been in big trouble. It was a joke, the guy was not fighting, he was just standing there and still, Renzo could do nothing to him. Silva would have mauled that guy in the same situation.
Renzo's 'kickboxing' wouldn't have troubled Henderson in any way at all, Renzo would have gotten the worse of any exchanges if they traded shots. And no way Renzo would be able to take him down or even drag him down to guard, the only way that would end up on the mat is if Henderson chose to go to the mat.

Ideally, takedown defenses may be identical in bjj and wrestling but wrestlers are much more adept at them. Likewise, bjj guys train takedowns but they can't perform them like wrestlers. And for all the sweeps that bjj guys train, when was the last time you saw a Gracie actually pull off a sweep in an MMA fight?

The Sperry videos are definitely good. But Sperry's team trains in a lot of different stuff, the future of the bjj camp is more with them than with any other bjj sect.

Any good wrestler can beat a bjj guy these days by keeping things standing and punishing them on the feet. With the exception of Nog and Busta, all the bjj guys can be victimized by this.

I like to train bjj because of the what the early UFC's showed. 99.9% of the people out there will have no clue what to do against a bjj fighter's tactics. Most people out there, particularly the kind of brawlers that you might have to defend yourself against, wouldn't be too tough of a fight for a bjj blue belt. If the guy is a brawler or boxer type you can easily take him down; if he happened to have been a wrestler he will take you down if you clinch with him, and you can easily armbar or triangle him right away, or take his back. Against a crosstrained fighter I would get my ass kicked.