Strength beats technique???

[Strepto]

have u guys seen bob sap vs mirko ? mirko made short work of bob sap and droped him with a left hook, left kick combo in the 1st round. bobs brute strength and incredible size/weight advantage didnt do anything for him in that match.

Speaking of Bob Sapp, didn't he get armbarred by Nogueira in a Pride a while ago? That's a classic case of technique winning vs strenght.

1. compare what would be better against like... a big strength opponent.. .or a big technique? ... any thoughts or ideas on that would be good.. and these examples ive been getting have been great.

From a martial arts point of view I would rather fight a big strong guy who sucks at fighting (lesser technique)... But if you're facing a more skilled opponent and you know you're stronger than him then I would say use your strenght, otherwise you're done.

Oh... and can experience be another factor in all this? I mean, you can have the best technique in the world and be strong but if you never trained against a fully resisting opponent then you're screwed if you ever get in a fight. So strenght and technique won't matter much. The same thing can be applied to other sports like hockey and football. Older, more experienced players are invaluable to a team. They've been there, done that... And I think experience in most case beats technique and strenght. When it comes to fighting a street brawler who fight 3-4 times a week on the street is a lot more dangerous than a TKD blackbelt with perfect kicking technique or than an olympic weight lifter with superhuman strenght.

[Enrique]

Yes experience is one of the most important thing in fighting. How can you use "perfect" techniques/strength, if you don't know how to take best advantage out of it.

[SamuraiGuy]

You know what i think yo uguys are exactly right about the experience thing.. but it's not within the boundaries of my topic... unless I did another... sub topic type thing on other factors... hmm that could be a thought... soo i agree with you about the experience thing but for now im just trying to do technique... and ill look into that bob sapp getting armbarred thing.

[SamuraiGuy]

Hey does anyone have a vide of Bob Sapp being armbarred... all the websites I found it on didnt have it... if anyone knows where I can get a video ... any website?.. kazaa?.. that'd be great.

[Tom Yum]

Oh... and can experience be another factor in all this? I mean, you can have the best technique in the world and be strong but if you never trained against a fully resisting opponent then you're screwed if you ever get in a fight. So strenght and technique won't matter much. The same thing can be applied to other sports like hockey and football. Older, more experienced players are invaluable to a team. They've been there, done that... And I think experience in most case beats technique and strenght. When it comes to fighting a street brawler who fight 3-4 times a week on the street is a lot more dangerous than a TKD blackbelt with perfect kicking technique or than an olympic weight lifter with superhuman strenght.

great points. Experience matters too.

Nothing like gettin' humbled by someone more experienced.

[jubaji]

great points. Experience matters too.

Nothing like gettin' humbled by someone more experienced.

How much did she charge you for that?

[shuyun]

have u guys seen bob sap vs mirko ? mirko made short work of bob sap and droped him with a left hook, left kick combo in the 1st round. bobs brute strength and incredible size/weight advantage didnt do anything for him in that match.

ever seen bob sapp against ernesto hoost? ernesto is one bad mutha. Bob was overwhelmed and even got knocked down in the first round and was only saved by the bell.

round two in less than a minute he comes back with a lousy lucky break with a swinging hook punch. knocked all the wind and conditioning out of hoost and even gave time for bob to sloppily finish the match with several misses and landing a few big ones. What happened to the misses? Hoost was too groggy to notice.

Never underestimate extreme atributes especially if the strong guy is oriented with the variations of technique. he may not know how to do it, but he knows how you do it and will be waiting. My friend is a karateka with little gound experience. but he knows enough to keep him on his feet. try to shoot and he can bicep curl ya. He was a power lifter while he was in karate. grapple him? he'll pummel you while you try lo lock his arm with the free one. Choke him? he'll grapple back, not let go and fall on ya all 200+ lbs of him?

You strike he uses a breaking technique to break that attacking limb?

What technique? He's a monster! And he punches with vital point accuracy as force of habit!

[EmptyneSs]

ever seen bob sapp against ernesto hoost? ernesto is one bad mutha. Bob was overwhelmed and even got knocked down in the first round and was only saved by the bell.

round two in less than a minute he comes back with a lousy lucky break with a swinging hook punch. knocked all the wind and conditioning out of hoost and even gave time for bob to sloppily finish the match with several misses and landing a few big ones. What happened to the misses? Hoost was too groggy to notice.

Never underestimate extreme atributes especially if the strong guy is oriented with the variations of technique. he may not know how to do it, but he knows how you do it and will be waiting. My friend is a karateka with little gound experience. but he knows enough to keep him on his feet. try to shoot and he can bicep curl ya. He was a power lifter while he was in karate. grapple him? he'll pummel you while you try lo lock his arm with the free one. Choke him? he'll grapple back, not let go and fall on ya all 200+ lbs of him?

You strike he uses a breaking technique to break that attacking limb?

What technique? He's a monster! And he punches with vital point accuracy as force of habit!

even though sap won, wasnt he unable to continue to the next fight that night because hoost battered him so bad? i remember watching bob sap being helped out of the ring even though he won, and he was unable to continue fighting so hoost took his place and advanced. hoost is one bad dude.

[Shoot]

There’s really not a very practical way to measure or test this question because what is “technique?” Is knowledge of a combat sport, such as American football knowledge of “technique” that is good for fighting? I think it probably is. I think you’ll always have some carryover of technique from whatever it is that strong people do or have done in their lives, even if it’s just weight lifting. Even that has grappling application in that it involves manipulation of center of gravity and balance and coordination all of which are useful on the ground. So, with that it’s my opinion that strength/athletic ability will defeat technique on most occasions if the one with superior athletic attributes has at least some basic knowledge of the techniques to be employed against him or at least has some good athletic instincts developed doing something. Keep in mind that this is not always. For example, some very strong people were defeated by technique employed with very average strength in early NHB fights (eg. Royce Gracie v. Kimo). However, in the Kimo/Gracie fight, Kimo gave ‘em hell and came close to defeating Gracie if it weren’t for his hair that acted as a handle for Gracie to hold on to. Kimo had very little knowledge of what to expect. Even without knowledge of the guard and BJJ his instincts were good just based on his incredible athleticism–stack and pound, but for that damn long hair he was sporting. Then you have a Ken Shamrock who is stronger than probably 99% of the population and also very well versed in techinque getting defeated by Gracie. Keep in mind that a man like Royce Gracie is literally one in a million if not one in 100 million. Imagine a 1 in 100 million level strong man who was fighting for his life with no holds barred. I imagine that a Shaq or one of those extremely large strong men who do things like pull train cars etc... wouldn’t have much trouble picking up a person who has their 160-180 lbs body wrapped around their waist in the guard and smashing/slamming/crushing them. If you’ve ever grappled with a truly big and strong guy you’d know what I mean. You can’t even get your legs around their neck to triangle them. You can’t even get a good grip on their wrist to arm bar them. I’ve known some guys who were so strong they would probably kill an average man just be bear hugging them. Imagine a grip that can hold a thousand pounds without problem around a 170lbs guys 15.5 inch neck. An average man couldn’t apply an arm bar fast enough if at all before that hand literally crushed his neck. Why do you think the legendary wrestlers of all time were also usually the largest and strongest men around? Technique? Why do we have weight classes? A strong and superior athlete who has some basic knowledge of what to expect will usually dominate a weaker and less athletic opponent who has perfect technique. I’ve seen this and experienced this in my grappling. Martial arts fighting and even street fighting are athletic endeavors, and athletic attributes have a direct impact on athletic endeavors that no amount of technique can make up for. The other thing is that people with great athleticism pick up things like martial arts easily and with very little training. Frankly, martial arts aren’t as complicated as they are often made out to be. We all have pretty good fighting instincts without any formal training. We know how to wrestle/grapple instinctively pretty well. If you’re aware of the few things on the ground that are counterintuitive to your instincts and reflexes, then you’re a long way to being good on the ground. I’ve seen big strong guys with just very little training defeat smaller opponents who are pretty average or even weak but have advanced colored belts in BJJ just by virtue of their strength and athleticism. I’d rather be a big, strong, and athletic blue belt than a 150 pound black belt any day.

[Hardball]

even though sap won, wasnt he unable to continue to the next fight that night because hoost battered him so bad? i remember watching bob sap being helped out of the ring even though he won, and he was unable to continue fighting so hoost took his place and advanced. hoost is one bad dude.

U R right. I saw that fight.

[Tom Yum]

How much did she charge you for that?

It was done out of pitty

[SamuraiGuy]

Hey that bob sapp vs Ernesto hoost... im already using that lol... thanks for that anyway... and i find myself agreeing with the strength more then technique... hmm...

[Tom Yum]

well, if you look at the fight Hoost went head to head with Sapp. While Hoost is extremely powerful for his size, Sapp has alot of size and strength.

That fight was like a lion fighting a bull. The lion may be dang fierce and powerfull, it can't meet the bull head on.

[SamuraiGuy]

Mind if I use that lion fighting a bull analogy?

[Tant01]

SamuraiGuy>>>and i find myself agreeing with the strength more then technique... hmm...


Whatever works for you but IMHO the art in martial art is making what you do look easy. Technique, even if it's a hammerfist, is technique. Of course a skinny little guy Vs Goliath is at a huge disadvantage.

Kano describes it like this; "Suppose we estimate the strength of a man is ten units, whereas my strength, less than his, is seven units. Then if he pushes me with all his force, I shall certainly be pushed back or thrown down, even if I use all my strength against him. This would happen from opposing strength to strength. But if, instead of opposing him, I leave him unresisted, withdrawing my body just as much as he pushes, at the same time keeping my balance, he will naturally lean forward and lose his balance. In this new position he may become so weak (not in actual physical strength, but because of his awkward position) as to reduce his strength for the moment, say to three units only instead of ten. Meanwhile, by keeping my balance, I retain my full strength available for any emergency.... Now I am stronger than my opponent and can defeat him by using only half my strength..."