Comments regarding arguments against BJJ

[koto_ryu]

mike, based on ur experiences, if someone could only choose 1 hand to hand combat art to study, which would u say would be the best one to choose for self defense ?

A good KM instructor might be able to teach someone to defend themselves, but he may not teach someone else how to. Jujutsu might help one guy win a fight but another to lose. A karateka could knock out his opponent with one solid kick where another gets beaten to death by a pissed-off guy with a barstool. It all depends on the person and who they are, before you can figure out what they should study as their primary form.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Being someone who also put himself in harm's way for the simple reason of being an big-egoed idiot, I second Mike's posts.
There's not much to add here. It's all been addressed.
The "if someone could only learn one martial art for self-defense" is in all reality a fallacy. A false dichotomy. (nothing personal to the person who asked). It's just that this situation doesn't exist in our world (thank goodness). So take what you can and address what's real. That will come from many different sources.

Ryu

[Tant01]

Since I can only choose one, I think bjj is the way to go. Is this so hard to understand?

No, is THAT all you were trying to say? I think a good "self defense" academy will most likely teach more than one style. For instance, our local Juan Fan gung-fu JKD instructor is a BJJ blackbelt. He teaches both once or twice a week and holds seminars once or twice a year...

[Tant01]

In answer to the "only one art" question, I have to go with the one I DID select. I choose JKD because it allows me to explore and adapt many differrent ideas and training methods into my own art. .....
....There's no arguing that even an untrained person with a gun is a lot more dangerous than a trained person with no weapons at all. There are legal and moral issues that surround that kind of idea, but I said self-defense means protection of life and safety ABOVE ALL OTHER concerns, including legal and moral. ...
... Remember, no system is complete, so we have to look at things from a conceptual point of view, and choose training that allows the inclusion of things not originally included, or even known about, by the system's founder(s).

I would agree, if I may add that I've been in the precarious position of facing a number of those armed and not trained in MA. I've disarmed everything from tweezers and shoes to needles-read hypodermic, screwdrivers, a fork, knives and a .357 mag. It would be self destructive, even suicidal to attempt much of this without training. BJJ is fun and there's a lot of good stuff there to absorb but it is FAR from a well rounded system IMHO. It is my opinion that a trained person is never really without a "weapon". His brain being the most important one of all. If the concepts of a system are based on UNARMED combative techniques you're in for a big wake-up call the first time some moron (maybe even related to you by blood or marriage) tries to stab you in the back... Then what? Shoot them dead? No, I think skills like sensitivity and footwork, deceptive hand techniques and jointlocking are more important than how to escape the gaurd. How to get the ever critical "attachment" and position yourself and them for the disarm or destruction technique is far more "advanced" than a BJJ black belt with red stripes...

[jubaji]

How to get the ever critical "attachment" and position yourself and them for the disarm or destruction technique is far more "advanced" than a BJJ black belt with red stripes...

...in your opinion

[Tant01]

...in your opinion

YES, I said that. My opinion is based on my limited experience with real world violence, and very limited experience with Fabio Santos. (5th black). I've had the pleasure of playing a little bit of this "new" style, I like BJJ but it's still Judo. It's limitations are obvious enough... to me at least.

[jubaji]

YES, I said that. My opinion is based on my limited experience .

...........................................


ok

[Jeremy Lobdell]

BJJ = Judo?

I like BJJ but it's still Judo.

Are you sure about that? No, no it's not. Not even close!

[IPON]

Are you sure about that? No, no it's not. Not even close!

BJJ is more like Brasilian Judo than Jujutsu that is definately true. there is no mystery, prewar judo newaza does equal BJJ everything in BJJ is from judo not jujutsu. Infact BJJ is no closer related to Jujutsu than Sambo. Not a stab at BJJ but that is the truth unless you have different information to share.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Judo = BJJ???

I'm not making any great statements about the origins of certain arts. Unless I had a time machine ( I don't ) it has nothing to do with my training now or any other training I've done in the last 20 years. Having trained in both arts for a relatively long period of time, this is what I've observed. 90% or more of Judo training and technique ends when one person's back hits the mat. 90% or more of BJJ training and technique starts when one persons back hits the mat. It is very well recognized that these are two independant arts. If they evolved from the same point of origin, so what. It is important to train in both (hopefully teoghter) to be a well rounded ma, but to say that they are the same is rediculus.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[IPON]

Jeremy, I agree current Judo and BJJ are different you are correct, they are not equal. But I think if people are passionate about thier style they would want to know the history and with BJJers they barely know the history of thier style...and maybe don't care

In any case no problems

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Nothing but peace, love, and happiness to you Ipon. I agree with you. I just don't agree with the statement that caused me to post in the first place. There is a fine line between being proud of your chosen art and being closed minded and dismissive of other arts. It seems like that line is crossed too often. And when it's done by someone who has self admittedly " little experience" I felt it was important to point out a flaw in his logic. I could just as easily ignored it, but it's been a bad day.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[EmptyneSs]

bjj and judo arent the same, judo is way better

[JohnnyS]

BJJ has evolved way beyond it's Judo origins. This can be seen with the leglocks and wrestling takedowns being employed in BJJ and submission grappling competitions such as ADCC. This can be also be seen in looking at just how much BJJ has evolved in the last 10 - 15 years.

To say BJJ is just Judo without the throws is ignorant at best.

As far as learning a traditional style of ju-jitsu that contains weapons, striking, and grappling, all I can say is good luck! What they will probably teach you from my experience is poor throwing (not as good as Judo), poor striking (not as good as karate) and poor weaponry (not as good as Kali).

Tant01, the person you quoted, Mark Tripp, is not an authority on BJJ, so his beliefs aren't the word of God. If you think he is correct, then you might also be surprised to know that he has also said that there are NO traditional styles of Ju-jitsu left and they were all eventually brought under the Judo umbrella.

[IPON]

There is a fine line between being proud of your chosen art and being closed minded and dismissive of other arts. It seems like that line is crossed too often.

Unfortunately, this is an understatement and a definate plague in MAs. But hey people have to learn the hard way, key lock wrist lock, upper cut or round house

Tomorrow will be a better day my friend!!