So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[Shoot]

Be prepared for the ground.

The "BJJ will get you killed on the street" idea is overdone and misunderstood. Yes, you can get stabbed to death in the guard. Yes, you shouldn't take it to the ground if someone has assaulted you. Yes, BJJ is ideal for one on one sport fighting but dangerous when the prospect of the assailant having accomplises. We all know that and understand that.

BUT, and this is a really big but, WHAT IF, and this is a really important what if, an assailant manages to take YOU to the ground against your will. It would be dangerously naive to believe it can't happen. Fact is, it is likely to happen if you are assaulted. Should you just not train for it because you think the ground is a dangerous place. Because the ground is a dangerous place to be you should train for it and get used to it so you can get off the ground and away from harm.

I understand the difference between "mutual combat" as in two people squaring off to fight and "self defense." Most assaults do not resemble sport fighting. A certain % of assaults are "bar fights" and the like which are completely stupid. But the majority of assaults are fueled by someone who wants something from you or a relative, such as a trashy drunk cousin who wears a wife beater and drinks beer from a 20 oz. can. Hopefully most of us don't get in bar fights and don't have a cousin who looks like a good candidate for the "reality TV show," Cops. That leaves assaults by criminals. Hardly a "fight." But, the ground could happen and you better be prepared.

[LoneHusky]

The "BJJ will get you killed on the street" idea is overdone and misunderstood. Yes, you can get stabbed to death in the guard. Yes, you shouldn't take it to the ground if someone has assaulted you. Yes, BJJ is ideal for one on one sport fighting but dangerous when the prospect of the assailant having accomplises. We all know that and understand that.

BUT, and this is a really big but, WHAT IF, and this is a really important what if, an assailant manages to take YOU to the ground against your will. It would be dangerously naive to believe it can't happen. Fact is, it is likely to happen if you are assaulted. Should you just not train for it because you think the ground is a dangerous place. Because the ground is a dangerous place to be you should train for it and get used to it so you can get off the ground and away from harm.

I understand the difference between "mutual combat" as in two people squaring off to fight and "self defense." Most assaults do not resemble sport fighting. A certain % of assaults are "bar fights" and the like which are completely stupid. But the majority of assaults are fueled by someone who wants something from you or a relative, such as a trashy drunk cousin who wears a wife beater and drinks beer from a 20 oz. can. Hopefully most of us don't get in bar fights and don't have a cousin who looks like a good candidate for the "reality TV show," Cops. That leaves assaults by criminals. Hardly a "fight." But, the ground could happen and you better be prepared.

Well said.

[IPON]

The "BJJ will get you killed on the street" idea is overdone and misunderstood. Yes, you can get stabbed to death in the guard. Yes, you shouldn't take it to the ground if someone has assaulted you. Yes, BJJ is ideal for one on one sport fighting but dangerous when the prospect of the assailant having accomplises. We all know that and understand that.

BUT, and this is a really big but, WHAT IF, and this is a really important what if, an assailant manages to take YOU to the ground against your will. It would be dangerously naive to believe it can't happen. Fact is, it is likely to happen if you are assaulted. Should you just not train for it because you think the ground is a dangerous place. Because the ground is a dangerous place to be you should train for it and get used to it so you can get off the ground and away from harm.

Actually there is a big difference between ground fighting an just being "taken" off base or to the ground. Many styles address going to the ground the soulution.....get up as quicklyas possible. As many have said the likely hood is that the person forcing you to the ground has no experience in ground fighting and it is a desperate attempt. A drunk is will drunk. And the infamous bum rush (at least from the front).......Tai sabaki - I guess movement is also an outdated concept. I am a grappler and have no problem rolling but I know the disavatages from experience. Keep the opponent on the ground and you on your feet or at least knee

I am not arguing with you but honestly this post adds nothing to the discussion topic. I wll say it again, if you want to ground fight or just love BJJ fine justy take the cautions and adjust your game where necessary. As long as you can make it work that's all that matters

[devildogg]

Knowing how to get OFF OF THE GROUND the fastest way possible, and back into a self defense situation, not a bout that wastes precious time that you could be using to end the fight and escape.

- Uke

I've been telling my students the same thing, and used a similar exercise to demonstrate. needless to say I couldn't agree more

[Tant01]

.... the ground could happen and you better be prepared.

Who was that? Shoot? Hmm....


I've been attacked in my sleep, guess what position I woke up in? That could never happen to some folks! They probably sleep standing up, right?


Good post!

[Uke]

it should be more like "Be prepared for everything"

Maybe I should have said this earlier, but if you look at the origin of why we grapple it may shed more light on the topic. There are times when we are faced by better fighters. Faster, stronger, smarter and younger fighters. Grappling has always been a secondary backup when you feel as though a strike will not win the bout quickly. Otherwise no one would grapple, they would just hit their opponent and be done with it.

Grappling is supposed to nullify strength and speed so that a man can have a chance in the IDEAL situation that no other variables will interfere, like weapons, other opponents and no time limit. And a skilled grappler can dismantle a man who has no grappling training in those conditions. But this topic is and always has been about self defense, not ideal situations.

When Jigoro Kano and Helio Gracie modified their respective arts, it was because they were smaller men who could not execute the techniques of their original arts on bigger men. So, they modified their techniques to focus on an area that they were interested in being proficient at. Kano focused on kuzushi or breaking the balance of an opponent, while Helio chose to focus on Ne waza or ground techniques. Now anyone who has studied Judo knows that it comes from its parent art of jujitsu. And Judo is the parent art of Brazilian jujitsu.

With that said, it should then be understood that a fighting system has many components to address the different ranges of combat. Once you focus on one aspect of an art, you become a specialist of that component, and you are no longer interested in survival, but in perfecting the skills of that range in a sports setting, because no one would limit their tools when their life is on the line. And there is no single range in a survival situation. There's just the fight and where you let it take you.

What the Gracies have done is specialize in ground grappling, and showed that they had become so proficient at the ground range while other fighters neglected it that they could point out a huge hole in people's games. And they did. They showed that by using supine grappling techniques, you could hold on long enough to maneuver into submissions and superior ground positions like the mount. The techniques weren't new, but they were shocking because many fighters had neglected that range because they never were put on the ground before because many of the other grapplers who has tried had failed. There were other fighters who had been fighting on the ground like Sambo players, Judo players, and shootfighters. But it was the guard that had people puzzled. That's why in the 90's there was a buzz about "How to solve the riddle of the guard". Few had seen it. Even less had experienced it. So the reputation of the guard being formidable was born. But that was in the ring. When oustide the ring, the Gracies do not travel in packs by coincidence. They do so out of necessity.

Even the best BJJ players today go straight to the guard when a fighter strikes aggressively. Just like when boxer clinches because he's getting outfought, a BJJ player will clinch by using the guard when he's being outfought. There are exceptions. Like when they can surprise someone who hasn't seen BJJ before or trained in it to counter it.

But if the reputation of BJJ was built in NHB, then it should be noted that strikers have acknowledged its value and trained so that they do not have to roll around on the ground. Most just use a simple wrestling sprawl to negate the charging attempts to grapple. But once they're clinched, many know just enough to avoid getting submitted and get back on their feet. But its still an ideal situation.

Most MMA strikers need ideal situations as well. If a man thai-boxed a western boxer in the street, he'd better break the boxer's leg with the first low kick because once a boxer's inside with a Thai boxer, its a bad situation. If a boxer fought a knife wielding opponent, he'd better knock him out on the first exchange because if he clinches, its over because he knows nothing about disarms. If a guy like Mirko Flilpovic starts throwing high kicks at a guy in the street, he better not miss or slip, because a grappler could easily shoot in on him and either submit him like Nogueira did, or just hold him there until other people show up.

I could have stated this earlier, but that's not what the topic was about. Its about BJJ and why its lacking as self defense. It does not prepare you for the street, and luck favors the prepared.

And MMA is not a new concept. Its telling when people write that the Gracies, the UFC and similar NHB events were the catalyst for crosstraining. There are entire self defense systems that were built on the premise of crosstraining. And most of them existed before the Gracies ever came to America and before Bruce Lee's JKD. The entire focus of these arts is to make a man prepared for all ranges in those non-ideal situations.

What would you rather do:

Train in an art that only teaches one range, and how to become a monster competitor at it?

-or-

Learn how to defend against a real attack possibly against a weapon, then break the man down, then have the option to finish him, control him or run without rolling on the ground or having a drawn out bout?

In those 2 situations, the mindset is different. The concepts are different. The skills are DEFINITELY different. And the objectives are DEFINITELY different.

There are several systems that teach the latter. And they teach it very well. But some people are content to train to survive just ONE of the many aspects of what can go wrong.

Sadly, some will argue "But that's why we crosstrain". What they don't see is that they are crosstraining in other arts that need ideal situations. Thai boxing and boxing are 2 of the most common styles that are being intergrated in the new breed of MMA. But as I've said before, "you'll fight like you've trained". And most of today's MMA fighters are fighting bouts in rings using the "mutual combat" and "squaring off" like Shoot wrote about. The skills found in boxing and Thai boxing are formidable, but if you don't train to flow between ranges and become skilled in the transition, you're basically a ring fighter in good shape who can fight a bout. MMA fighters have ABSOLUTELY NO FLOW. Its either brawling with punches that aren't disciplined, hit and tackle or lucky punch KO's. And its all done from a squaring off position that you'll never see in a real fight, but you train for everyday.

Without flow, you basically are using one range at a time and clumsily try to follow up if something lands. Its like you're a thai boxer until you hurt the guy and he falls from low kicks. Then once he does, you run over and try to ground and pound him until he ties you up. Then you become a BJJ player to grapple with him on the ground. That is MMA, definitely not self defense. In the time it took you to chop him down with low leg kicks, at least one of those variables would have been introduced. You'd either be jumped, stabbed, shot or just plain ole' tired. Yes, I said TIRED. No matter what shape you're in, adrenaline can exhaust you in minutes. So before that time, you'd better have taken care of business otherwise you have 2 minutes tops before you lose fine motor skills. MMA fighters pretend that they have all the time in the world to win a fight, which defies reality. It doesn't matter if you're squaring off while boxing or thaiboxing, or working the guard to get a mount ... you're taking way too long to get the job done.

In a nutshell, I'm telling everyone to know the difference between training for bouts and training for survival. Although a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, the way you go about applying them is extremely different in MMA and self defense. Nothing will work 100% of the time, but by being well versed something in your arsenal will work when you need it to.

Good Luck. But as I said before, luck favors the prepared.

[Big Kahuna]

Uke - What would you suggest?

Uke,

Interesting post! Although not new to MA, I have not achieved any mastery in any one art. I have had TKD, Kenpo, and Karate in the past and at a younger age. Now, older, I train in BJJ and Muay Thai. I don't do this for MMA, but for exercise and, God forbid, self-defense. To be the well-rounded self-defense person you are talking about, what styles or techniques should I incorporate?

Thanks,
BIg Kahuna

[jubaji]

Maybe I should have said this earlier, but if you look at the origin of why we grapple it may shed more light on the topic. There are times when we are faced by better fighters. Faster, stronger, smarter and younger fighters. Grappling has always been a secondary backup when you feel as though a strike will not win the bout quickly. Otherwise no one would grapple, they would just hit their opponent and be done with it.
.

Yeah...definatelydefinatelytimeforwapner...yeah

[gregimotis]

If a man thai-boxed a western boxer in the street, he'd better break the boxer's leg with the first low kick because once a boxer's inside with a Thai boxer, its a bad situation.

BWWAAAHAHAHAAAhahaaahaaa. Oh man, and here I thought you were just ignorant of the BJJ skillset.

[mpossoff]

Maybe I should have said this earlier, but if you look at the origin of why we grapple it may shed more light on the topic. There are times when we are faced by better fighters. Faster, stronger, smarter and younger fighters. Grappling has always been a secondary backup when you feel as though a strike will not win the bout quickly. Otherwise no one would grapple, they would just hit their opponent and be done with it.

Grappling is supposed to nullify strength and speed so that a man can have a chance in the IDEAL situation that no other variables will interfere, like weapons, other opponents and no time limit. And a skilled grappler can dismantle a man who has no grappling training in those conditions. But this topic is and always has been about self defense, not ideal situations.

When Jigoro Kano and Helio Gracie modified their respective arts, it was because they were smaller men who could not execute the techniques of their original arts on bigger men. So, they modified their techniques to focus on an area that they were interested in being proficient at. Kano focused on kuzushi or breaking the balance of an opponent, while Helio chose to focus on Ne waza or ground techniques. Now anyone who has studied Judo knows that it comes from its parent art of jujitsu. And Judo is the parent art of Brazilian jujitsu.

With that said, it should then be understood that a fighting system has many components to address the different ranges of combat. Once you focus on one aspect of an art, you become a specialist of that component, and you are no longer interested in survival, but in perfecting the skills of that range in a sports setting, because no one would limit their tools when their life is on the line. And there is no single range in a survival situation. There's just the fight and where you let it take you.

What the Gracies have done is specialize in ground grappling, and showed that they had become so proficient at the ground range while other fighters neglected it that they could point out a huge hole in people's games. And they did. They showed that by using supine grappling techniques, you could hold on long enough to maneuver into submissions and superior ground positions like the mount. The techniques weren't new, but they were shocking because many fighters had neglected that range because they never were put on the ground before because many of the other grapplers who has tried had failed. There were other fighters who had been fighting on the ground like Sambo players, Judo players, and shootfighters. But it was the guard that had people puzzled. That's why in the 90's there was a buzz about "How to solve the riddle of the guard". Few had seen it. Even less had experienced it. So the reputation of the guard being formidable was born. But that was in the ring. When oustide the ring, the Gracies do not travel in packs by coincidence. They do so out of necessity.

Even the best BJJ players today go straight to the guard when a fighter strikes aggressively. Just like when boxer clinches because he's getting outfought, a BJJ player will clinch by using the guard when he's being outfought. There are exceptions. Like when they can surprise someone who hasn't seen BJJ before or trained in it to counter it.

But if the reputation of BJJ was built in NHB, then it should be noted that strikers have acknowledged its value and trained so that they do not have to roll around on the ground. Most just use a simple wrestling sprawl to negate the charging attempts to grapple. But once they're clinched, many know just enough to avoid getting submitted and get back on their feet. But its still an ideal situation.

Most MMA strikers need ideal situations as well. If a man thai-boxed a western boxer in the street, he'd better break the boxer's leg with the first low kick because once a boxer's inside with a Thai boxer, its a bad situation. If a boxer fought a knife wielding opponent, he'd better knock him out on the first exchange because if he clinches, its over because he knows nothing about disarms. If a guy like Mirko Flilpovic starts throwing high kicks at a guy in the street, he better not miss or slip, because a grappler could easily shoot in on him and either submit him like Nogueira did, or just hold him there until other people show up.

I could have stated this earlier, but that's not what the topic was about. Its about BJJ and why its lacking as self defense. It does not prepare you for the street, and luck favors the prepared.

And MMA is not a new concept. Its telling when people write that the Gracies, the UFC and similar NHB events were the catalyst for crosstraining. There are entire self defense systems that were built on the premise of crosstraining. And most of them existed before the Gracies ever came to America and before Bruce Lee's JKD. The entire focus of these arts is to make a man prepared for all ranges in those non-ideal situations.

What would you rather do:

Train in an art that only teaches one range, and how to become a monster competitor at it?

-or-

Learn how to defend against a real attack possibly against a weapon, then break the man down, then have the option to finish him, control him or run without rolling on the ground or having a drawn out bout?

In those 2 situations, the mindset is different. The concepts are different. The skills are DEFINITELY different. And the objectives are DEFINITELY different.

There are several systems that teach the latter. And they teach it very well. But some people are content to train to survive just ONE of the many aspects of what can go wrong.

Sadly, some will argue "But that's why we crosstrain". What they don't see is that they are crosstraining in other arts that need ideal situations. Thai boxing and boxing are 2 of the most common styles that are being intergrated in the new breed of MMA. But as I've said before, "you'll fight like you've trained". And most of today's MMA fighters are fighting bouts in rings using the "mutual combat" and "squaring off" like Shoot wrote about. The skills found in boxing and Thai boxing are formidable, but if you don't train to flow between ranges and become skilled in the transition, you're basically a ring fighter in good shape who can fight a bout. MMA fighters have ABSOLUTELY NO FLOW. Its either brawling with punches that aren't disciplined, hit and tackle or lucky punch KO's. And its all done from a squaring off position that you'll never see in a real fight, but you train for everyday.

Without flow, you basically are using one range at a time and clumsily try to follow up if something lands. Its like you're a thai boxer until you hurt the guy and he falls from low kicks. Then once he does, you run over and try to ground and pound him until he ties you up. Then you become a BJJ player to grapple with him on the ground. That is MMA, definitely not self defense. In the time it took you to chop him down with low leg kicks, at least one of those variables would have been introduced. You'd either be jumped, stabbed, shot or just plain ole' tired. Yes, I said TIRED. No matter what shape you're in, adrenaline can exhaust you in minutes. So before that time, you'd better have taken care of business otherwise you have 2 minutes tops before you lose fine motor skills. MMA fighters pretend that they have all the time in the world to win a fight, which defies reality. It doesn't matter if you're squaring off while boxing or thaiboxing, or working the guard to get a mount ... you're taking way too long to get the job done.

In a nutshell, I'm telling everyone to know the difference between training for bouts and training for survival. Although a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, the way you go about applying them is extremely different in MMA and self defense. Nothing will work 100% of the time, but by being well versed something in your arsenal will work when you need it to.

Good Luck. But as I said before, luck favors the prepared.

Good post Uke,

Can you elaborate on learning and training for purely self defense?

That's what I'm interested in, is learning for purely self defense situations and also excercise.

What mixed MMA's would you recommend to learn to defend yourself?

Marc

[LoneHusky]

What MAs would you recommend to learn to defend yourself Uke?

[gregimotis]

What MAs would you recommend to learn to defend yourself Uke?

Yes, Just what ARE your positions Uke?
Also, what sort of actual fighting/combat experience do you have?





(baited breath)

[SamuraiGuy]

Uke, Id like to point out one of your examples... you said Mirko Cro Cop would have to hit his high kick... well just for the record... he could use his punches.. or knees... cause he has those two... and then theres also the GUN he has, and all the self defense he got in the croatian army.... you should pick better examples... not the ex-commando type guys....

This was posted by you (Uke):

What would you rather do:

Train in an art that only teaches one range, and how to become a monster competitor at it?

-or-

Learn how to defend against a real attack possibly against a weapon, then break the man down, then have the option to finish him, control him or run without rolling on the ground or having a drawn out bout?

End quote.

Now.... I'm sure if there was some system where you could "defend the real attack weapon or no weapon, break the man down, and have the option to finish him, control him or run.... we would all be taking it....

Point being... theres no style like that which exists... you make it sound like you can just "learn" to do this.. and everytime it will work...

Also in your other option you gave "an art that you can be a master competitor in one range"....

Aha, so your right, that discredits Muay Thai, BJJ, Or wrestling... if you take Muay thai, no ground game, if you take bjj no standing game, if you take wrestling, you can take them down but do nothing with them and cant knock them out with strikes....

Bravo... you just pointed out something we already know..
welcome to the concept of mixed martial arts.... with mixed martial arts, where you train striking, ground, and wrestling... every situation is the ideal situation.... you fight a good bjj guy, you can put him out before he can get you on the ground, you fight a good muay thai guy, try to bring him on the ground... by training MMA, you make every situation the ideal situation because you have tools to deal with them all.

The only exception is the knife/weapon attacks, you may not have tools for that, im willing to bet though, youd have alot better chance than most other people, including some reality based self defense system.. plus if the other guy has a knife, your prolly fucked anyway....

[Tant01]

....Bravo... you just pointed out something we already know..

The only exception is the knife/weapon attacks, you may not have tools for that, im willing to bet though, youd have alot better chance than most other people, including some reality based self defense system...

plus if the other guy has a knife, your prolly fucked anyway....

This is the defeatist attitude I find all too often in the MA.

If you think you can or you think you can not, you're probably right...

[Uke]

Uke, Id like to point out one of your examples... you said Mirko Cro Cop would have to hit his high kick... well just for the record... he could use his punches.. or knees... cause he has those two... and then theres also the GUN he has, and all the self defense he got in the croatian army.... you should pick better examples... not the ex-commando type guys....

Uhh ... I know what Cro Cop can do. He's one of the best high kickers in MMA. I used one example of what he can do well. But you forgot to mention that he's been KO'd by a punch thrown by a wrestler(Kevin Randleman) as well. So don't overestimate just how invincible he is just because he can strike well in ideal conditions. And as far as the gun goes, you carry that in most states and you're going to prison unless you're law enforcement. So strap up! My example was fine in that it illustrated what I wanted it to.

Now.... I'm sure if there was some system where you could "defend the real attack weapon or no weapon, break the man down, and have the option to finish him, control him or run.... we would all be taking it....

Point being... theres no style like that which exists... you make it sound like you can just "learn" to do this.. and everytime it will work...

You obviously cannot read well. So I will just quote what I wrote above as it eluded you the first time.

"In a nutshell, I'm telling everyone to know the difference between training for bouts and training for survival. Although a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, the way you go about applying them is extremely different in MMA and self defense. Nothing will work 100% of the time, but by being well versed something in your arsenal will work when you need it to." -Uke

There are styles that exist that address everything I wrote. I have written about the system that I have practiced for years on another topic here. Just not on this topic because then the morons here will accuse me of having an agenda and trying to promote my own art. I have no reason to do that because it stands on its own merits, and if you're really that curious to know what it is, go through what I've written on different topics. There are styles other than my own that adhere to everything that I wrote like Defendo, Krav Maga, Modern Kajukenbo, Hock Hochheim and his Scientific Fighting Congress, EMBAS, and probably more.

You probably know nothing about any of those arts, but you claim that you would be training in them if they existed. BUT THEY DO! Sadly, most people only know about what is advertised to them. However, in the martial community, the best styles were never highly publicized or commercialized. Its just with the advent of the Tiger Schullman's, The Gracie's and the Krav Maga's of the world, average joe's begin to pay attention due to marketing, not due to what addresses what and what works where. Hence the 2-3 page ads in Black Belts magazine claiming to be Navy SEAL arts or "secret". Be careful of systems like that. Its a marketing machine IMO.

Aha, so your right, that discredits Muay Thai, BJJ, Or wrestling... if you take Muay thai, no ground game, if you take bjj no standing game, if you take wrestling, you can take them down but do nothing with them and cant knock them out with strikes....

Bravo... you just pointed out something we already know..
welcome to the concept of mixed martial arts.... with mixed martial arts, where you train striking, ground, and wrestling... every situation is the ideal situation.... you fight a good bjj guy, you can put him out before he can get you on the ground, you fight a good muay thai guy, try to bring him on the ground... by training MMA, you make every situation the ideal situation because you have tools to deal with them all.

Again, you did not read very well. I clearly addressed this above, but it too escaped you. So I will quote myself yet again:

"Sadly, some will argue "But that's why we crosstrain". What they don't see is that they are crosstraining in other arts that need ideal situations. Thai boxing and boxing are 2 of the most common styles that are being intergrated in the new breed of MMA. But as I've said before, "you'll fight like you've trained". And most of today's MMA fighters are fighting bouts in rings using the "mutual combat" and "squaring off" like Shoot wrote about. The skills found in boxing and Thai boxing are formidable, but if you don't train to flow between ranges and become skilled in the transition, you're basically a ring fighter in good shape who can fight a bout. MMA fighters have ABSOLUTELY NO FLOW. Its either brawling with punches that aren't disciplined, hit and tackle or lucky punch KO's. And its all done from a squaring off position that you'll never see in a real fight, but you train for everyday.

Without flow, you basically are using one range at a time and clumsily try to follow up if something lands. Its like you're a thai boxer until you hurt the guy and he falls from low kicks. Then once he does, you run over and try to ground and pound him until he ties you up. Then you become a BJJ player to grapple with him on the ground. That is MMA, definitely not self defense. In the time it took you to chop him down with low leg kicks, at least one of those variables would have been introduced. You'd either be jumped, stabbed, shot or just plain ole' tired. Yes, I said TIRED. No matter what shape you're in, adrenaline can exhaust you in minutes. So before that time, you'd better have taken care of business otherwise you have 2 minutes tops before you lose fine motor skills. MMA fighters pretend that they have all the time in the world to win a fight, which defies reality. It doesn't matter if you're squaring off while boxing or thaiboxing, or working the guard to get a mount ... you're taking way too long to get the job done." -Uke

That says it all. If you fight like you've trained(and you will), and you're accustomed to fighting in bouts that last for many, many minutes, you'll fight the same way in a different situation. Proof of that is in NHB tournaments. Some of these matches go on and on and on. And if these men could just win the fight quickly without going the distance to a decision, they would. Instead, these matches are long bouts of squaring off and posturing, flailing strikes, shoot attempts and battles in the guard.

And it doesn't matter how much money you're willing to bet that you think you'd stand a better chance than most. It'll matter to you when you're willing to bet your life on it. And if your disarm experience comes strictly from MMA or NHB type fighting, then I agree with you ... you are f*cked. I could give you a knife, but that wouldn't mean you know how to use it. And if you went up against a arnis or kali guy who was armed, you'd still get killed depite having your knife. And believe it or not, thanks to FMA, there are alot of knife fighters out there. Many of them are criminals, no matter what any of you may speculate. I always think its funny when people state that just because a man has studied fighting he will be a better citizen.

Having tools and knowing how to use them are 2 entirely different subjects. MMA guys punch all the time, but how many of you would agree that their boxing skills look even as good as a teenage golden gloves fighter? Anyone who knows what boxing is would not agree because MMA fighters don't look as good. Just because you can punch doesn't mean you can box, and just because you can kick doesn't make you a Thai boxer or TKD fighter. But if you can get the basic tools down solid, and learn how to put them together for close quarters, you wouldn't need the extreme athleticism that every MMA fighter has to have in order to be effective.

The only range in the street is close quarters, in your face and personal. Any cop, corrections officer or bouncer knows this. That whole squaring up and circling bullsh!t is for sporting events like boxing and MMA. The whole point of self defense is to be close enough so that if a man were to pull a weapon, you'd be able to actually stop him by attacking before he could deploy it. You can't do that from boxing or thai boxing range. And that's how I know that alot of you are tough talkers, but don't have alot of knowledge as to what self defense is. The only range beyond close quarters in the street is the gun range. And if a gun is pulled from that far away, there isn't going to be any fighting unless you have a gun too. TMA's didn't address it because the most common weapon to defend against back then was the sword. But in today's world, the pistol is the sword. You have no chance against a pistol from anything but close quarter range where you can stop it from being pulled or control where its being fired.