So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[Sensei Saki]

RE: XavierFrost

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[Tcell]

Uke

When I say roll maybe I should say spar. We start from standing a lot of the time, we tend to finish on the ground. However we also train on mats so a takedown on 'the str33t' may actually be the finish.
The point about my friend was he handled a real life situation, though he chose to just hold the guy down the fact that he had dominant position & complete control over him meant that he could have smashed the guy to bits, but he judged that it wasn't necessary.
Knowing how to stop someone taking you down & knowing how to get back up quickly are only really covered by ground fighting arts in any depth BJJ is very usefull when it comes to this.
So to say that it is no good for self defence is in my opinion wrong.
Is it the be all end all no.

I too have done a 'bit' on & off for 20 years.

[jubaji]

Uke

When I say roll maybe I should say spar. We start from standing a lot of the time, we tend to finish on the ground. However we also train on mats so a takedown on 'the str33t' may actually be the finish.
The point about my friend was he handled a real life situation, though he chose to just hold the guy down the fact that he had dominant position & complete control over him meant that he could have smashed the guy to bits, but he judged that it wasn't necessary.
Knowing how to stop someone taking you down & knowing how to get back up quickly are only really covered by ground fighting arts in any depth BJJ is very usefull when it comes to this.

So, by this criteria wrestling is the superior art, no?

[Ronson]

After 8 pages I still don't know what happens to the guy on the ground with a black marker pulled on him.

I'm just waiting for the next evolution in martial arts. Get ready guys, Rorion Gracie, the NFL, and Sharpie presents "The Ultimate Marker Fighting Championship Bowl."

[BoarSpear]

After 8 pages I still don't know what happens to the guy on the ground with a black marker pulled on him.

I'm just waiting for the next evolution in martial arts. Get ready guys, Rorion Gracie, the NFL, and Sharpie presents "The Ultimate Marker Fighting Championship Bowl."

In other words you either havent tried the experiment or you are a VERY slow learner however if its really that hard for you to comprehend put someone in your gaurd who has a real knife...see if that clears it up for you...

[HtTKar]

Knowing how to stop someone taking you down & knowing how to get back up quickly are only really covered by ground fighting arts in any depth BJJ is very usefull when it comes to this.

Any martial art not geared towards sports rules teach how to prevent being taken down and how to get back up. Not just BJJ. If a fighter gets the chance, they will put you on the ground. Why would martial artists overlook that?

Boarspear
e i saw 3 people with fixed blades in plain site...one was a very pretty lady people just dont seem to notice them unless they are sizing you up...

Sizing up the pretty ladies, eh?
hee hee, what were the other two?
just kidding man

[jubaji]

Any martial art not geared towards sports rules teach how to prevent being taken down

For example?

[Uke]

Tcell

Uke

When I say roll maybe I should say spar. We start from standing a lot of the time, we tend to finish on the ground. However we also train on mats so a takedown on 'the str33t' may actually be the finish.
The point about my friend was he handled a real life situation, though he chose to just hold the guy down the fact that he had dominant position & complete control over him meant that he could have smashed the guy to bits, but he judged that it wasn't necessary.
Knowing how to stop someone taking you down & knowing how to get back up quickly are only really covered by ground fighting arts in any depth BJJ is very usefull when it comes to this.
So to say that it is no good for self defence is in my opinion wrong.
Is it the be all end all no.

I too have done a 'bit' on & off for 20 years.

Tcell, have you read my posts? I have written time after time after time after time that BJJ's value is in learning how to escape from the guard and mount to get back to your feet, and to learn how to reverse submissions and chokes. Its seem that you are getting the impression that I said there are no place for BJJ techniques. What I have said is that BJJ techniques should be used to prevent or escape and ground fighting bout, especially in the street. The reason are clearly outlined. I'm sure that if you look at what I was saying in its entirety it will much more clear, Tcell.

20 plus years? That's great. Hope you continue.

[Uke]

BoarSpear

In other words you either havent tried the experiment or you are a VERY slow learner however if its really that hard for you to comprehend put someone in your gaurd who has a real knife...see if that clears it up for you...

BoarSpear, you keep me laughing. You continue to take the words right out of my mouth.

[HtTKar]

For example?

What do you mean? I said Any.
If I said all, someone would talk about an obscure art that doesnt teach takedown defenses. I have never met a martial artist that was not taught basic takedowns and takedown defenses.

[Uke]

HtTKar

Any martial art not geared towards sports rules teach how to prevent being taken down and how to get back up. Not just BJJ. If a fighter gets the chance, they will put you on the ground. Why would martial artists overlook that?

Thanks for your comments, HtTKar

I agree that some arts may try to teach you from going down, but most of them do not teach how to get back up effectively, meaning that they do not teach you how to get up while making sure you take the least amount of damage while trying.

And forgive me if I misunderstood what you wrote, but you said that any art not geared for sport teaches you how to prevent being taken down and how to get back up. But BJJ is geared for sports, yet it effectively teaches you how to ground grapple, but I won't necessarily say it teaches you how to prevent being taken down. The most common manuever for that is simply the sprawl, a wrestling technique, and THAT is a sport.

If I may give my opinion on that, I would say that most non-sport, reality based martial arts try to teach anti-grappling in close quarter combat. Most fights don't look like they do in the UFC, where two guys are 8 feet apart in stances trying to get the right distance to strike or shoot. Its usually up close and personal, where weapons can be discreetly deployed. Its called "sucker punch range". No one is going to take out a knife, begin screaming and then start running from across a parking lot to stab you, much like no one is going to shoot in on you from 6-8 feet away. Actually, the "shoot" is one of the reasons that BJJ isn't based on reality. Who in their right mind is going to run at someone blindly when you don't know if he's armed or not? Not me. I'm a thinker, not a man willing to play bull vs the matador.

Most altercations happen when someone approaches you with a smile, or begins talking to you in a non-threatening manner. Alot of these guys like to look away just before they swing. But I've never heard or seen a fight in the streets of New York where people began by jabbing and throwing low kicks like they do in NHB.

And yes, your opponent is supposed to wind up on the ground while you are finishing him. You are not supposed to wind up on the ground with him. And if you do wind up on the ground with him, then its like I said before, it should be a fight to get back up on your feet.

[HtTKar]

I agree that some arts may try to teach you from going down, but most of them do not teach how to get back up effectively, meaning that they do not teach you how to get up while making sure you take the least amount of damage while trying.

Okay, jubaji and uke, I understand that i miscommunicated what I was trying to say. yes, some sport oriented arts teach these things, but not all. Boxing for example does not teach someone how to prevent being taken down or how to get back up. Sport TKD may not even care about takedowns.

But in my experience and people that I've met, every martial art that is serious about self-defense (non-sport) teaches how to prevent from being taken down, how to get back up, and how to fall properly.

[BoarSpear]

Sizing up the pretty ladies, eh?
hee hee, what were the other two?
just kidding man

ROFLMAO ........okay then....
Look at it this way you have to take the good with the bad, i teach all my students to observe the way people are dressed and the way they move. both of these things can help you spot the weapon bearing individual...certain types of clothing make carrying and accessing weapons virtually impossible, others make it a simple. i also stress watch the waist...most weapons that are readily deployable are carried in that general area. so watching the waist becomes habit now you have an excuse for watching womens (uhg i mean peoples ) hips and waist.

[jubaji]

the point being...

What do you mean? I said Any.
If I said all, someone would talk about an obscure art that doesnt teach takedown defenses. I have never met a martial artist that was not taught basic takedowns and takedown defenses.

And I've met very few who would have any chance of stopping a decent takedown, outside of grappling arts that focus on that particular skill.

[mpossoff]

Hi all,

I would like to chime in here a bit.

The few fights I have been in to defend myself, started out and continued standing up.

If I was able to stop the fight standing up, then it would have been over.

What happens in a "street fight" most of the time is starts standing up, then when you get in close alot of so called grabbing takes place and sometimes can end up on the ground.

I've witnessed MANY real street fights because of the neighborhood I grew up in. And witnessed some very good street fighters who could defend themselves.

The things I've observed with these good street fighters was...

No fear

Ending the fight ASAP standing up.

The fights hardly went to the ground because of the stand up fighting skills that they possesed like good punching skills and good foot work.

On the other hand, IF you can't end the fight standing up and it happens to end up on the ground, it's good to know how to fight on the ground.

So my belief is BJJ as a REAL self defense art shouldn'r be a primary art of self defense.

It just doesn't make sense to me to shoot and go for the take down initially.

What I'm going to seek is a primary good stand up fighting art, like Wing Chun becaue of the "longevity". From my observing, Wing Chun doesn't have to do with strength, more "internal" so to speak compared to Muay Thai.

Then intergrate BJJ as a very secondary art, just in case a fight ends up on the ground.

But my primary objective would be in a self defense situation would be to end the fight ASAP and that would be standing up.

Any comments.

Marc