So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[Tom Yum]

PS Muay Thai and Boxing are sports too. That's why they have weight classes. Its common knowledge that in those sports, including kickboxing and BJJ, that when the weight of your opponent is much greater than the opponent their skills are waaaay less effective and impressive. Without the weight classes of MMA and NHB, you'd see the TRUE skill level of those athletes. That's why the FIRST 3 UFC's were as good as it was going to get.

Some say as the tournaments went on, the skill level of the opponents began getting better. That's a lie, until recently. Its just after the first couple of tournaments, every organization began instituting more rules, pads and weight classes, so we only get to see certain people fight certain people. And that doesn't showcase the effectiveness of a style. It showcases the level of athleticism and toughness of a specific fighter.

The martial world has always taken its examples from men like Morihei Ueshiba, Remy Presas, Jigoro Kano, Florendo Visitacion and Bruce Lee because they were little men who made their art work for them. They didn't say "Ok, I'll fight anybody my size". They used what they knew to deal with opponents of ALL sizes and shapes. They all trained in some form of ground grappling, but none would try to ground grapple with a man the size of Mike Tyson because they all knew that in that position, they wouldn't be able to use their most powerful tools. They were all practical men, and if they created an art for sport, they would state that and wouldn't call it a self defense or street art if it wasn't. But more than anything else, these little men were able to teach other little men to win against bigger men. And without teaching them to compromise themselves and their most effective tools by going to the ground with bigger, stronger and younger men.

Its true that larger, stronger fighters have advantages so long as they try to make someone fight a match of strength. There are many ring fighters who can take out heavier, stronger fighters with good skill standing up or on the ground.

Some examples:

Koakkalai vs. Mighty Mo.

Mo was a super heavyweight tough man champ who has won 90% of his fights by knock out. Koakkali was a middleweight Muaythai champ. Size difference - about 150 lbs in favor of Mo. Koakkalai Ko'd Mo with a kick to the head.

Sudo vs. Butterbean

Sudo tried to find Butterbean's weakness standing up but gut knocked back by a jab. Sudo lands a flying knee that hits butterbean. Butterbean falls on top of Sudo. Sudo maneuvers his way quickly out of Bean's ground and pound and pulls a knee bar.

Royce Gracie vs. Akebono

Yeah, you hate BJJ but this is a prime example of how Gracie tapped someone with a 400 lb weight advantage who was skilled in an art of grappling and was considerably stronger.

Don Frye vs. 400-lb kung fu guy with 400 streetfights

It was in an earlier UFC that took place in Puerto Rico. Frye KO'd the guy with a jab!

I do like your tribute to the classic martial arts masters who triumphed. What's your take on Mas Oyama? Kyokushin isn't too shabby of a system.

[jubaji]

One trick pony needs to be put out of our misery

I'm sure they've won on the ground, but not by choice. But not nearly as many as BJJ as the whole point of this thread is that stand up fighters and self defense practitioners have already realized the value of being on your feet and NOT ON THE GROUND..

Fer cryin' out loud The fuckin' record is broken. I think everyone gets the one and only thing you have to say, puke. Your opinion has been duly noted. Are you just gonna rock back and forth repeating it over and over again like the rainman?


To summarize:

[Uke]

jubaji

Fer cryin' out loud The fuckin' record is broken. I think everyone gets the one and only thing you have to say, puke. Your opinion has been duly noted. Are you just gonna rock back and forth repeating it over and over again like the rainman?


To summarize:

jubaji, do you EVER have something about martial arts to contribute to ANY conversation? You're like a retarded kid in that you have nothing to say, but you'll howl and groan to get attention. And have you noticed that what you commented on was a reply to someone else's interest in what I have to say? No one replies to you unless its an argument of insults. Your anger towards this topic is UNREAL.

Are you the b!tch of BJJ? Because you sure seem like BJJ has got you wearing a dress, lipstick and high heels, and you're standing on the corner of this forum getting pimped by it.

If you don't agree with what I've said, then don't read what I've written. You see the name of the topic, but you still come back here because you need attention, not because you know anything or have anything of value to discuss.

PS Its nice to see that you and your BJJ sheep "get the one and only thing I have to say".

[Tom Yum]

If you don't agree with what I've said, then don't read what I've written.

You could hold yourself to the same standard.

You see the name of the topic, but you still come back here because you need attention, not because you know anything or have anything of value to discuss.PS Its nice to see that you and your BJJ sheep "get the one and only thing I have to say".

Actually, Jubaji knows a thing or two.

He maintains the pH balance here.

[Uke]

Tom Yum

Its true that larger, stronger fighters have advantages so long as they try to make someone fight a match of strength. There are many ring fighters who can take out heavier, stronger fighters with good skill standing up or on the ground.

Some examples:

Koakkalai vs. Mighty Mo.

Mo was a super heavyweight tough man champ who has won 90% of his fights by knock out. Koakkali was a middleweight Muaythai champ. Size difference - about 150 lbs in favor of Mo. Koakkalai Ko'd Mo with a kick to the head.

Sudo vs. Butterbean

Sudo tried to find Butterbean's weakness standing up but gut knocked back by a jab. Sudo lands a flying knee that hits butterbean. Butterbean falls on top of Sudo. Sudo maneuvers his way quickly out of Bean's ground and pound and pulls a knee bar.

Royce Gracie vs. Akebono

Yeah, you hate BJJ but this is a prime example of how Gracie tapped someone with a 400 lb weight advantage who was skilled in an art of grappling and was considerably stronger.

Don Frye vs. 400-lb kung fu guy with 400 streetfights

It was in an earlier UFC that took place in Puerto Rico. Frye KO'd the guy with a jab!

Anyhow, I like your tribute to the classic martial arts masters who triumphed. What's your take on Mas Oyama?

Did you say that I "hate BJJ"? I'm sure I read it correctly, and I think that you've made one too many assumptions. Just because I don't worship ANY art, doesn't mean that I hate an art.

Anyway, Mas Oyama was a great, athletic man. He was the epitome of a fanatical work ethic. He's the kind of guy legends are made of. Training on a mountain, and shaving an eyebrow off to make sure you'd look too funny to leave is dedication. I have seen pictures(but not footage) of this guy defeating bulls in a wide open arena. No weapons either. His hands look alot like some of my teachers in the past, but worse. Deformed from conditioning. He was definitely a fanatic, and the best usually are.

If we speak more about him and guys like him, we should probably go to or start another thread where its appropriate, Tom Yum.

Thanks for your comments

[Tom Yum]

.
If we speak more about him and guys like him, we should probably go to or start another thread where its appropriate, Tom Yum.

That's a great idea.

There aren't too many threads here about the classical MA legends or ancient training methods. Sometimes its good to look at the old school ways and the minds of the legends.

[Uke]

Tom Yum

You could hold yourself to the same standard.

Tom Yum, out of curiosity, have you seen me post anything on the topics like "Why BJJ is the Ultimate Martial Art" or "BJJ as self defense (Can it be done?"? The answer would be no, because that is where the BJJ sheep go to graze. I have no quarrel with them as anyone can see that my posts have been non-aggressive unless someone is just blatantly disrespectful. So I created this topic for those with an opposing view to voice their ideas. But still we get the children who yell and curse here from time to time even though I have limited my remarks to mostly this topic.

And to be honest, no disrespect intended Tom Yum, but you're replying to a post that I addressed to jubaji. And unless you're jubaji under a different user name, you should really mind your business as our (jubaji and I) words had nothing to do with martial arts or the topic.

But this has nothing to do with the topic, and its the last time that I'll waste time explaining this point.

[Tom Yum]

No offense taken.

[jubaji]

And to be honest, no disrespect intended Tom Yum, but you're replying to a post that I addressed to jubaji. And unless you're jubaji under a different user name, you should really mind your business.

Actually, he did a great job. I was just gonna tell you to take your assumptions and go **** yourself. I was thinking about adding something about your need to seek professional help getting over the trauma of when someone named Gracie abused you as a child. So, you should really welcome his input.

[LoneHusky]

Uke - Don't get me wrong - I only posted the 1 success I had doing the drill

I've been studying martial arts for 22 years and I have spent alot of time working on defending the knife. I've done drills like this many times before. I can say that my defense against the knife while being on the ground is much better since I have started studying BJJ (that doesn't mean I use pure BJJ when defending against the knife while on the ground - just that the skills I learned in BJJ have helped).

As for motiviting my training partners - I agree 100% and I often tell them to attack me as if I would give them $100 for everytime they stab me.

My motto has always been don't train to make me look good - just train to make me good.

Great idea for motivating.

[SamuraiGuy]

Actually, he did a great job. I was just gonna tell you to take your assumptions and go **** yourself. I was thinking about adding something about your need to seek professional help getting over the trauma of when someone named Gracie abused you as a child. So, you should really welcome his input.

HAHAHAHAHA

No offense Uke, but thats just funny, hehe...

[Uke]

In shorter terms ...

I guess I'd be that upset as well if I was finding out that what I trained in for years isn't what it was cracked up to be. So instead of letting yourselves get over being taken in by brilliant promotion and marketing, you'd rather hold on to the dream that someday if you keep practicing BJJ you'll get the "glow" from the Last Dragon movie. Then, and only then will you be invincible from all ranges using sport judo minus the effective throws.

Seems like you're devastated by the fact that the only thing that the Gracies showed was that fighters weren't yet equipped to defend against a ground specialist, not that BJJ was better or even well rounded enough to be used outside of a sports arena. And that's exactly why BJJ isn't even the dominant NHB style anymore. Because people saw, learned how to defend it and moved on.

The BJJ craze lasted from 1992-1997. If it was even remotely as effective as you sheep claim, it would have had a longer shelf life. But the people have spoken, and the hype has fizzled, and only a couple of the desperate leftovers are still claiming that it has answers for every range as well as weapons.

It ain't worthless, but it sure ain't complete as its only one of many parts of judo. Makes sense though that the "knowledgable" guys here would see one component of sport judo as the most complete and effective system ever.

[jubaji]

The Rainman Continues...

Uh-oh!

TimeforWapnerDefinatelydefinatelytimeforWapnerI'maverygooddriverDefinatelydefinatelygooddriver...

[EmptyneSs]

jubaji, do you EVER have something about martial arts to contribute to ANY conversation? You're like a retarded kid in that you have nothing to say, but you'll howl and groan to get attention.

the only thing lamer than jumanji are his one liners. -fu oh wait, then again there are the dudes who like samurai are always hanging of the sacks of tom yum or mike b. i aint talkin shit about tom or mike cause they contribute tons, but some of these dudes here straight up look like they just finished a chocolate pie eating contest cause their noses are so brown. and they are pretty damn lame. be careful with the things u say on the forum tom and mike, u guys might get stalkers or something. there are people on this forum that worship u. next thing u know we will be reading posts like "i caught Samurai looking in my bedroom window last night" and whatnot. although it would prob be jumanji doing that more than anyone though.



.

[wayfaerer]

Uke - "The BJJ craze lasted from 1992-1997. If it was even remotely as effective as you sheep claim, it would have had a longer shelf life"

Pride is a pretty brutal martial arts competition, and it is still being used effectively in that. think of antonio rodrigo nogeuira, bj penn etc that still use it...its just a more agressive form of bjj that you saw royce use in the early ufc, and even without weight classes in practice (think bob sapp v minotauro).

dont get me wrong, im not saying bjj is the be all and end all of martial arts, but if you are adequately trained in bjj, you kick could the ass of the average person on the street, even by using the standup side that jj uses...