Forms Really necessary for combat

[Eric Daniel]

Do you guys think forms are really necessary for combat?

[medic06]

NO!!! Forms are an archaic way of teaching proper body mechanics in the absence of proper training gear. Think of them as highly formalized shadow boxing. Are there better ways to train? More than likely.

[Sagacious Lu]

Are they "necessary"? Well, there are plenty of good fighters that don't use them so strictly speaking I guess not. They can be an invaluable training tool though. Now, I won't comment on a form or kata from any style other than my own because I have no experience with them, but we have lots of good reasons for forms. If you think our forms are just fomalized shadow boxing than you don't really understand them. The positions you use build tremendous strength and flexibility. They also improve balance and teach you to generate power with your movements. Many of them incorporate movements that build strength through tension, and of course there is a strong cardiovascular component if you practice them with intensity. On a more subtle level the movements are not techniques in and of themselves but rather blueprints for techniques. The movements describe both techniques as well as strategies for making the techniques work. As each motion is explained by your teacher they become very practical, brutal self-defense techniques. You might ask "Why not just learn the technique and be done with it?" I'd answer that in the first place by practicing the form you will be forced to analyze the movement and thus better understand it. Secondly, the form is open to interpretation. After studying and practicing the form you might very well pull an idea that works for you out of it that your teacher never thought of. In this way by teaching forms the wisdom behind the art is passed down from one generation to the next even if the people teaching it don't realize everything they're teaching. I remember my teacher telling me that even after all the years he's been practicing the first form he ever learned (also the first one he taught me) he's still learning from it and probably always will. The thing is that you can't be lazy, you have to practice it regularly and you also have to spend time really thinking about the motions and experimenting with them to benefit from the practice. To an outsider they might not make any sense at all, but just because you don't immediately understand doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. Not many people have the patience for this sort of thing, but IMHO those that do reap great rewards.

[kuk sool won]

good reply, plus it adds a bit of variation in your training, and they look nice

[eXcessiveForce]

forms have nothing to do with combat. they are just teaching tools.

[Freedom]

Well said excessiveForce. Thats why if you see a shotokan or TKD practioner fighting in a full contact tournament, they usually just look like a standard kickboxer. Has anyone else noticed that?

[medic06]

The positions you use build tremendous strength and flexibility. They also improve balance and teach you to generate power with your movements. Many of them incorporate movements that build strength through tension, and of course there is a strong cardiovascular component if you practice them with intensity..

sounds a bit like shadowboxing with a bit of dynamic tension to me

[danfaggella]

I noticed that, freedom.

I am not the biggest fan of forms and I don't want to walk into a class and just punch air. However, forms do teach dicipline and relate to fighting when you look at the movements and balance and positions involved. Obviously a fight never looks like a beautiful form, but things translate. I personally see them as a decent way to plactice martial arts alone, meaning, when class is over and when you come home form the gym, you can just run through your forms a few times, i see progress in that respect and enjoy it.

[kuk sool won]

and they look nice n'all

[medic06]

sounds a bit like shadowboxing with a bit of dynamic tension to me

OK, I'll let you off the hook. I love forms, form are highly underrated.

[danfaggella]

So Erik, the general consensus is that they aren't somethign every good fighter does all the time, or even at all, but they can be a good way to AID martial developement, because if all you know is forms, you are just a flower fist. I hate flower fists.

[JkD187]

Forms are great for cardio and strength building....no place at all in combat though....If you train for anytype of bjj/wrestling/mma/boxing/thai boxing type matchs then you would be better off doing some road work.....however for a traditional artist who has forms as a mandatory part of their art....they can increase your cardio lots.

[danfaggella]

It works your technique as well. If you drill perfect form In your forms, it will help you when you actually are fighting. Obviously forms alone aren't what it's all about, but it has its benefits. I cerainly don't think that you should walk into a dojo and do forms all day, but if you do them, then let your teacher tell you how you can do your form more properly and explain its implications to you. Then where you practice at home you keep all the principals in mind, this is basically the one reason I sometimes enjoy and respect forms.

[Maxx]

I generally tend to look at forms in this light: They are a method of passing down the traditional/classic techniques that make up the art that is being practiced. Most of the techniques that are practiced have mutlipe applications but it takes study... a lot of it to learn them.

For me, they are a kind of meditation, if you will. Practicing a form allows me to clear my head and focus just on myself for a few minutes or so. Also, not everyone practices martial arts to become a fighter. Many people enjoy the competition and stress of engaging in full contact kickboxing, MMA or Grappling arts, but not everyone out there is interested in becoming a combative athlete. Forms training is a great way to allow people to develop certain skills in the martial arts. For the general recreational martial artist I think that they are a good option.

Also look at if from this angle. Forms are probably combinations of techniques that were used by someone at some time in a combat situation. That person probably thought, "Hey, that worked. I'm gonna teach that!" While not exactly the same thing, I see definite parallels between forms from various traditiona martial arts and the standard boxing combinations that are taught to aspiring boxers or the lock flows that are taught to people who are training in Shooto or even the kic/punch combinations that are taught in Muay thai or some of the hybrid kickboxing systems that are out there now. The biggest difference is that we now have pads to hit and we are not fighting in rice paddys or uneven ground so we have a much greater respect for the ability to remain mobile.

Tradition vs. Evolution I think it what it really boils down to.

[pstevens]

Forms CAN be beneficial, if practiced correctly. Unfortunately, most forms are a waste of time. Let me explain.

Every technique is in itself a form. For instance, a jab or cross. Let's examine the FORM of the cross; 1. push off the back foot, 2. square the hips, 3. shoot the arm straight out, and 4. connect the chin and shoulder.

Now, if you use this form every time you throw a cross, your punch will have increased efficiency. Understand, comprende?

Good!

Bad form exists in the guise of mechanical motions that don't serve the goal of martial arts - learning techniques to be used in a fight. I will come out and say it plainly - Taeguek forms, tiger crane form varieties, etc... Martial artists do not benefit from these forms, and may even regress in training. The problem is that these forms DO NOT facilitate true "function," rather they represent an "idealized" function.

The fighter who learns the "cross" will throw it the same way he throws it in training, but the fighter who learns a "tiger form" will have to adjust when he realizes his form has nothing to do with the fight.

I'm NOT assuming that people who practice tiger forms expect to use it in combat, but there is something called "habit." When we do something enough, we begin to develop a habit of reverting back to it. Then you must question "why" you're doing it in the first place?