Matt Hughes vs. Royce Gracie

[OmaPlata]

Dana White is a fag for not letting Royce wear a gi and complying to time limits and rounds. But Matt Hughes will probably win any way since he is the champion, and an explosive grappler and striker. But Royce is a phenomenal grappler, who can box very well. What is definetly gonna happen, is that Hughes will take Royce down right into his guard which is Royce's specialty. If Royce ends up pulling a nasty submission from underneath Hughes, I will piss my pants!!! That would be so fu##ing sick!!!!!

5min rounds suck so bad, pride is 100s times better. Its stupid to try and get a tapout in less than 5 mintues when both fighters are so well trained always

[jubaji]

If Royce ends up pulling a nasty submission from underneath Hughes, I will piss my pants!!! That would be so fu##ing sick!!!!!

Yes, your soiling yourself would be quite spectacular, I'm sure.

[cam427]

Dana White is a fag for not letting Royce wear a gi and complying to time limits and rounds. But Matt Hughes will probably win any way since he is the champion, and an explosive grappler and striker. But Royce is a phenomenal grappler, who can box very well. What is definetly gonna happen, is that Hughes will take Royce down right into his guard which is Royce's specialty. If Royce ends up pulling a nasty submission from underneath Hughes, I will piss my pants!!! That would be so fu##ing sick!!!!!

What a crock of shit. Why should some old guy who hasn't fought in years get special rules. Either he can win under the same rules as everyone else or he can't.

I hate how the gracies try and "not lose" all the time as opposed to trying to win.

[OmaPlata]

What a crock of shit. Why should some old guy who hasn't fought in years get special rules. Either he can win under the same rules as everyone else or he can't.

I hate how the gracies try and "not lose" all the time as opposed to trying to win.

Why not give Royce whatever rules he wants, there wouldnt even be the UFC without him, its his "house" just like he said

[cam427]

Why not give Royce whatever rules he wants, there wouldnt even be the UFC without him, its his "house" just like he said

Wow... You really are a nuthugger

[Sabin]

What a crock of shit. Why should some old guy who hasn't fought in years get special rules. Either he can win under the same rules as everyone else or he can't.

I hate how the gracies try and "not lose" all the time as opposed to trying to win.

Cam,

You're completely off base. Current UFC rules favor certain types of fighters over others, thus chipping away at the whole notion of a "fair fight".

Currently, no gis are allowed. All fighters have to wear spandex underwear into the ring. I say, let the fighters wear whatever they want to wear within reason (no steel-toed boots, etc.) and if a fighter wants to fight in a gi rather than in a speedo, he should be allowed to do so. It's not as if the whole speedo thing is very reflective of a real fight anyway.

Secondly, I should point out that when Royce fought in the early UFCs, there were no rounds, no weight classes, no gloves, and no time limits. The UFC was billed as "real fighting." Current rules chip away at the "real fighting" aspect as well. As many on this board are fond of repeating ad nauseum, "there are no rounds in a street fight." Royce Gracie wanted to fight with no rounds and no time limits. That, to me, requires far more of a warrior spirit than a fight with rounds, time limits, and judges decisions.

Royce actually spoke on this latter point on one occasion. He has some great quotes from an interview that completely contradict your claim that Royce is trying to "not lose" as opposed to trying to win.

Here are some pieces from the interview I'm speaking of, and a link to the full interview, so you'll know I'm not just talking trash or "nuthugging" as so many like to put it.

Royce Gracie:" . . .they're putting so many rules that the fighters are fighting against the rule book. They're not fighting against each other. They're fighting against the clock. Now they come in to survive those thirty minutes. [They] don't come in to fight anymore, they come in for the draw. A lot of the fighters are playing for the draw. They're fighting for the judges. I'm sorry, I can't fight like that. That's B.S."

Martial Arts Gazzette: "The judges and time limit seem to be the main reason you're not fighting in the Octagon. Would you expand on the concerns you have with judges and time limits?"

Royce Gracie: "If I [was to] drop you in the middle of the ocean and you look around and there is only water, most of the people - 99 percent - would drown on the first night. If I drop you in the ocean and fly away but tell you I'm coming back the next day to pick you up, you don't have to go anywhere, just float around the entire day. I'll come back and pick you up and you'll be there waiting for me. That's what the fighters are doing now. They know there is a time limit. If you put a two-hour time limit they will do the same thing like Shamrock and Severn did. And like what Shamrock did to me. In UFC IX, Shamrock didn't want to fight, Severn didn't want to fight. They both came in with the same mentality. Let's play for the draw, let's see who the judges are going to give it to. It was a very boring fight. Everybody was booing; very bad fight."

Royce Gracie: "If you put a two-hour time limit, they will still do the same thing today. They will stand around for two hours. You put three hours they will do the same. If you take the time limit out, they have to fight. Somebody has to win. There's no judges; you have to win. Change the mentality of the game. Now you have to come in to fight. Once you put a judge, you put a time limit. Like in boxing - the guy starts to lose, he starts to play defense. He wants to go the distance now, he wants to lose by points. So then he cans say the judges didn't like me. Instead come in and try to exchange and get knocked out. As soon as you put a time limit and judges, you change the entire mentality of the fighting. I'm against that."

Here's the promised link:

http://www.bjj.org/interviews/tnfc/royce.html

[JkD187]

Cam,

You're completely off base. Current UFC rules favor certain types of fighters over others, thus chipping away at the whole notion of a "fair fight".

Currently, no gis are allowed. All fighters have to wear spandex underwear into the ring. I say, let the fighters wear whatever they want to wear within reason (no steel-toed boots, etc.) and if a fighter wants to fight in a gi rather than in a speedo, he should be allowed to do so. It's not as if the whole speedo thing is very reflective of a real fight anyway.

Secondly, I should point out that when Royce fought in the early UFCs, there were no rounds, no weight classes, no gloves, and no time limits. The UFC was billed as "real fighting." Current rules chip away at the "real fighting" aspect as well. As many on this board are fond of repeating ad nauseum, "there are no rounds in a street fight." Royce Gracie wanted to fight with no rounds and no time limits. That, to me, requires far more of a warrior spirit than a fight with rounds, time limits, and judges decisions.

Royce actually spoke on this latter point on one occasion. He has some great quotes from an interview that completely contradict your claim that Royce is trying to "not lose" as opposed to trying to win.

Here are some pieces from the interview I'm speaking of, and a link to the full interview, so you'll know I'm not just talking trash or "nuthugging" as so many like to put it.

Royce Gracie:" . . .they're putting so many rules that the fighters are fighting against the rule book. They're not fighting against each other. They're fighting against the clock. Now they come in to survive those thirty minutes. [They] don't come in to fight anymore, they come in for the draw. A lot of the fighters are playing for the draw. They're fighting for the judges. I'm sorry, I can't fight like that. That's B.S."

Martial Arts Gazzette: "The judges and time limit seem to be the main reason you're not fighting in the Octagon. Would you expand on the concerns you have with judges and time limits?"

Royce Gracie: "If I [was to] drop you in the middle of the ocean and you look around and there is only water, most of the people - 99 percent - would drown on the first night. If I drop you in the ocean and fly away but tell you I'm coming back the next day to pick you up, you don't have to go anywhere, just float around the entire day. I'll come back and pick you up and you'll be there waiting for me. That's what the fighters are doing now. They know there is a time limit. If you put a two-hour time limit they will do the same thing like Shamrock and Severn did. And like what Shamrock did to me. In UFC IX, Shamrock didn't want to fight, Severn didn't want to fight. They both came in with the same mentality. Let's play for the draw, let's see who the judges are going to give it to. It was a very boring fight. Everybody was booing; very bad fight."

Royce Gracie: "If you put a two-hour time limit, they will still do the same thing today. They will stand around for two hours. You put three hours they will do the same. If you take the time limit out, they have to fight. Somebody has to win. There's no judges; you have to win. Change the mentality of the game. Now you have to come in to fight. Once you put a judge, you put a time limit. Like in boxing - the guy starts to lose, he starts to play defense. He wants to go the distance now, he wants to lose by points. So then he cans say the judges didn't like me. Instead come in and try to exchange and get knocked out. As soon as you put a time limit and judges, you change the entire mentality of the fighting. I'm against that."

Here's the promised link:

http://www.bjj.org/interviews/tnfc/royce.html

How are the rules made to favor certain fighters?? because theres a time limit which allows fight not to be boring and a huge hug fest?? All royce dose is stall against good opponents...have you noticed the guy couldnt even beat Takada?????!! Kerr submittied Takada in like 2 mins...dose that make Kerr a beter Grappler then Royce??? Also he got annhiliated by Hideo Tokoro who weighs about 145lbs and because of his retarted rules the fight was a draw....the guy wants to wear his GI so he can use it to stall....through his bogus time limits and then when it goes to the end its an auto draw...so he can save face...just like against Tokoro.Also fighters can wear any type of shorts that they want...where in the hell do you see spandex???? everyone usually wears sprawl or fcf shorts...wtf are you watching buddy.It shouldnt take that long to submit fighters regardless of how good they are espically in MMA where striking and takedowns play a big part in setting up the sub along with just the regular set ups for your subs.

[Sabin]

JKD,

I agree with the rules to keep the fight from being a boring "hug-fest". I want an exciting fight as much as anyone, and of course, knockouts are more exciting and dramatic than tap-outs. However, grappling is often a waiting game (i.e., one fighter waits for the other to make a mistake and then capitalizes on it). Thus, although things like rounds, time limits, and the "stand-up rule" (where the ref stands both fighters up and separates them to start over again) make for a more entertaining fight, I think it's pretty obvious that these special rules do indeed favor a strong striking style over a strong grappling style.

All royce dose is stall against good opponents...have you noticed the guy couldnt even beat Takada?????!!

Takada (205 lbs.) lost to Mark Kerr (255 lbs.), beat Mark Coleman (245 lbs.), and lost to Royce Gracie (175 lbs). Mark Kerr's a badass. Mark Coleman is no pushover. Yet you speak as if any random BJJ blue belt should be able to beat Takada in about 12 seconds.

Tokoro's got my respect as well. But what's funny is, Royce's "retarded rules" that he prefers (no time limits, fighters win either by submission or knock out, not judge's decision) would actually prevent Royce from being able to go for a draw against Matt Hughes. Please explain to me how that reflects badly on Royce.

Royce prefers to fight in a gi. UFC said no gi, so he said ok, I'll fight without a gi. Royce prefers to fight without rounds or time limits. UFC said there would be rounds and time limits. So Royce said ok, I'll fight with rounds and time limits. Royce prefers to fight until either submission or knockout, rather than going to a decision. UFC said victory could be claimed by the judge's, so Royce said ok, I'll fight by that rule as well. Explain to me how this reflects badly on Royce.

I know that I, like many others, became a fan of Royce not because of his fighting style or because of the BJJ business that the Gracie's are so often criticized for. I became a fan because he was the absolute smallest fighter in the first UFC's, outweighed twice by nearly 80 pounds, (Remco Pardoel and Dan Severn) and certainly outclassed in the raw strength category by virtually every opponent he fought against, yet he still managed to come out victorious. His philosophy was always that skill will triumph over strength, and this appealed deeply to me, even though I am very serious about my own weight training.

To me, this fight is not even about how good of a fighter Royce is. We already know he's very beatable and probably unable to keep up with today's crop of fighters. But, he's shown more heart and warrior spirit than any of the posters on this forum who keep ranting about "nuthugging" and so forth. He battled Dan Severn for over 15 minutes to pull out a win. He battled Sakuraba for 90 minutes straight before conceding defeat (with a broken leg). If you cannot bring yourself to adopt a respectful attitude towards him, then you should at least cede that the man is worthy of a neutral attitude, rather than constant flaming.

As to where I've seen spandex...here's a quote from a website talking about sprawl shorts and mma gear (website is http://www.sprawl.tv/about.html )

"By 2002 grappling and MMA had grown significantly since both sports exploded onto the scene nearly a decade earlier. However, gear for these sports had advanced very little. The only shorts available were the tight spandex variety." (emphasis added).

And I still see the "tight spandex variety" on occasion. If spandex daisy-dukes are allowed in the ring, why not gi pants?

[Tant01]

Good on you!

....

I agree with the rules to keep the fight from being a boring "hug-fest". I want an exciting fight as much as anyone, and of course, knockouts are more exciting and dramatic than tap-outs. ...

.... he's shown more heart and warrior spirit than any of the posters on this forum who keep ranting about "nuthugging" and so forth. ....



.. why not gi pants?

You know what... I voted for the guy so, I suppose you don't mean me but there is definitely a nuthugger attitude among it's followers (fanatics)

I'm so with you on this but I still get tired of all the HYPE... the man knows his newaza and I hope he makes Matt's face turn purple but that doesn't mean BJJ is better than wrestling... Ya know?

[JkD187]

JKD,

I agree with the rules to keep the fight from being a boring "hug-fest". I want an exciting fight as much as anyone, and of course, knockouts are more exciting and dramatic than tap-outs. However, grappling is often a waiting game (i.e., one fighter waits for the other to make a mistake and then capitalizes on it). Thus, although things like rounds, time limits, and the "stand-up rule" (where the ref stands both fighters up and separates them to start over again) make for a more entertaining fight, I think it's pretty obvious that these special rules do indeed favor a strong striking style over a strong grappling style.



Takada (205 lbs.) lost to Mark Kerr (255 lbs.), beat Mark Coleman (245 lbs.), and lost to Royce Gracie (175 lbs). Mark Kerr's a badass. Mark Coleman is no pushover. Yet you speak as if any random BJJ blue belt should be able to beat Takada in about 12 seconds.

Tokoro's got my respect as well. But what's funny is, Royce's "retarded rules" that he prefers (no time limits, fighters win either by submission or knock out, not judge's decision) would actually prevent Royce from being able to go for a draw against Matt Hughes. Please explain to me how that reflects badly on Royce.

Royce prefers to fight in a gi. UFC said no gi, so he said ok, I'll fight without a gi. Royce prefers to fight without rounds or time limits. UFC said there would be rounds and time limits. So Royce said ok, I'll fight with rounds and time limits. Royce prefers to fight until either submission or knockout, rather than going to a decision. UFC said victory could be claimed by the judge's, so Royce said ok, I'll fight by that rule as well. Explain to me how this reflects badly on Royce.

I know that I, like many others, became a fan of Royce not because of his fighting style or because of the BJJ business that the Gracie's are so often criticized for. I became a fan because he was the absolute smallest fighter in the first UFC's, outweighed twice by nearly 80 pounds, (Remco Pardoel and Dan Severn) and certainly outclassed in the raw strength category by virtually every opponent he fought against, yet he still managed to come out victorious. His philosophy was always that skill will triumph over strength, and this appealed deeply to me, even though I am very serious about my own weight training.

To me, this fight is not even about how good of a fighter Royce is. We already know he's very beatable and probably unable to keep up with today's crop of fighters. But, he's shown more heart and warrior spirit than any of the posters on this forum who keep ranting about "nuthugging" and so forth. He battled Dan Severn for over 15 minutes to pull out a win. He battled Sakuraba for 90 minutes straight before conceding defeat (with a broken leg). If you cannot bring yourself to adopt a respectful attitude towards him, then you should at least cede that the man is worthy of a neutral attitude, rather than constant flaming.

As to where I've seen spandex...here's a quote from a website talking about sprawl shorts and mma gear (website is http://www.sprawl.tv/about.html )

"By 2002 grappling and MMA had grown significantly since both sports exploded onto the scene nearly a decade earlier. However, gear for these sports had advanced very little. The only shorts available were the tight spandex variety." (emphasis added).

And I still see the "tight spandex variety" on occasion. If spandex daisy-dukes are allowed in the ring, why not gi pants?

I actually like tap outs beter then ko's at times and other times i prefer a ko.I pretty much like them equally.In regards to Kerr and colemans weight.... i know you got them from sherdog...but coleman was not 245 in the fight against Takada....and besides that fight was a WORK just like every other fight he "won" he admitted this himself....also Kerr was not 255 in that fight either.About grappling being a waiting game....waiting for someone to make mistakes....thats only what the losing grappler dose...that is unless there is no time limit.The Gracies were the ones who made it seem that way...but in fact todays grapplers can submit even the best of opponents in seconds and minutes...not half hours and hours.

[SamuraiGuy]

I vote for a submission over a knockout too. Unless it comes form a devastating slam, bruhahahaha, whoa....

And hey, they did give Royce a special rule, the fight is at 175, not 170, lol. I dont really have a stance on the judges/time limits/whatever.... cause either way I'm happy. I do think Royce should be allowed to wear his gi though.

[olddognewtricks]

Had to get in on this discussion.

I think Royce has a valid point under previous MMA rules, before they pussed them out, he would have had a decent shot. But with the current state of MMA I think my money would be on Hughes. He's too strong and an able puncher. It'll be a good fight either way.

[jkelbaugh]

man, what a dillema as a member of the royce gracie network this guy is one of my heros i can only hope that matt hughes dosnt take royce serious like he did with penn then royce will tap him out quick whatever the outcome royce is still the man

[cagedape]

Royce will win. Matt has a chance, but its slim. -cagedape

[ninjaiboy22]

Same results different fight

I am betting, I now its still a while away, but I am betting that because of Matts popularity in UFC the judges will vote matt. I dont think either man is going to tap out or ko another. Both are too good.
I think the same thing will happen like the GSP and Penn Match.
Penn beat the crap outa him, but because of his ufc legal squabbles, plus GSP popularity the decision goes to GSP.
It sux, but I think that will be the outcome.

Foreel