Mixed vs. Traditional

[tigerofironfist]

Are the mixed Martial Arts superior to the traditional Martial Arts? Why? Why not? I am seeking answers only from people with good reasoning and real experience.

[danfaggella]

There are no "mixed martial arts." Martial arts cross training is mixed martial arts. Traditional martial arts can be mixed just like modern ones.

If your question is why mix your martial arts when you can stick with one, the answer is because generally speaking, experience in numerous arts gives a martial artist a more varied array of concepts and techniques, which he can bring into his own style and better himself as a martial artist.

I think what you meant to ask was:
Why are modern/sportive martial arts (Muay Thai, Brazilian Jujutsu, Western Boxing [not a martial art in my oppinion], Savate, Judo, ect...) are superior to Traditional martial arts (which are generally older in origin, and include various styles of Kung Fu, Karate, Traditional Jujutsu, ect...).

The modern arts are not intrinsically better than traditional ones. The difference is primarily in training method.
MODERN: Training based uppon full-resistance sparring/ grappling
TRADITIONAL: Training based on Kata

A little expereince in both will benefit you, especially if you can check out 2-3 modern arts and 2-3 traditional ones, see what you think. If you want to be a competitiave fighter, than its a good idea to get itno arts that focus thier training on live sparring and grappling, which is identical to the sport which you will compete in. If you want to learn how to avoid conflict and quickly disarm and bring down an aggressor (IE: self-defence), traditional is generally geared twords that. However, there are bogus Modern arts schools and bogus traditional ones, so check it out and get some more oppinions.

Determine what purpose the martial arts will have for you as an indevidual. Do you want to get in shape? Do you want to compete? Do you want to gain confidence? Do you want to meet people? Do you want to take out your anger on people? ect...

All of the above can be accomplished in many other ways, such as playing sports or picking up hobbies, though all except the last one are fine as initiatives to go out and find a LEGITIMATE martial arts establishment. Obviously, the most obvious reason to take up martial arts is self-defence, this is the reason martial arts were created. This can BEST be learned by joining a martial art, not by making cabinets or playing softball and soforth. Traditional and Modern arts can both greatly benefit your ability to defend yourself in many ways.

Look around, do your homework. Check websites, books, local establishments, and look inside yourself.

Not to toot my own horn but this is my best post on this forum.

[jkelbaugh]

i personaly believe that both have thier merits to shun one or the other is bs on one hand you have traditional what ever style it may be it is probably going to instill a lot of discipline and respect its agreat character builder but so is mma i mean you train hard (not to say that traditional styles dont train hard) your body hurts daily and reallly when you break it down you learn the best of many different styles the end goal is to make yourself a better fighter/person whether mma or traditional find what you like to do and do it well

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Yes. So is Jesus.

[danfaggella]

I don't get the above comment, but the one above THAT is very important, being a martial artist doesn't mean necssarily being a fighter, it means living the martial way, with dignity, respect, resistance to conflict, and a strong will, among other things.

However, you may want to be invovled in the martial arts but not be a martial artist. Many MMA stars are this way, which isn't necissarily a bad thing, they just enjoy the competition and the excitement of it. As I said, martial arts serve people many purposes, most of which are healthy for you, physically and mentaly.

[Sagacious Lu]

Yes. So is Jesus.

Threads about which art is better make baby jesus cry

[Tom Yum]

Threads about which art is better make baby jesus cry

Why? Which art would baby Jesus choose?

Tiger claw system or fighting crane?
Judo or wrestling?
Muaythai or boxing?
Silat or kali?

[aseepish]

I'm a lazy bugger, so I'm just going to copy and paste a reply that I gave in another thread.


If you intend to use ANY martial art against other martial artists, you have to spar with other martial artists. What happens to a lot of martial artists is that they only train within the context of their own gym. They can be sparring champion of the strip mall, but then get KO'd by someone who throws punches/kicks differently than they do.

Some arts, especially traditional arts, pracitce their techniques in a non-resisting way. It makes sense - some techniques are very dangerous to pracitce at full power and speed. This creates a problem for real-world application. People won't let you slap on a wrist-lock or do a fancy trapping sequence they way your training parters would.

We can divide the learning process into several steps. First you have basic learning - this is when you pracitce a movement for the first few times. You go slowly, against limited resistance. Next you have mastering - this is when you repeat the technique again and again and again and again, polish up your movement, and gradually increase the speed and power. The next step, which is the most IMPORTANT step for people who want to be able to use their techniques in a real world situation, is FUNCTIONALIZING - this means sparring, and sparring as realistically as possible. This means sparring against boxers, against Muay Thai people, against kung fu people, against BJJ people, against everyone. In sparring you find out what works and what doesn't. Finally there is maintaining - keeping your techniques sharp and rust-free.

There aren't a lot of traditional styles that go through the functionalizing stage. One reason is their so-called deadly techniques. They are too dangerous to practice full power and speed, the end result is that they are NEVER practiced at full pwer and speed, and are thus never fully functionalized. The practictioner cannot apply his/her techniques under duress and gets cold-clocked by some untrained street punk. Or the practictioner functionalizes his/her techniques on the steet, puts a lot of people in the hospital, and ends up in jail.

Sport oriented martial arts on the other hand have a certain amount of functionalizing training built in. The dangerous techniques are removed, so the art can be practiced at full power and speed, against fully resisting opponents. These people still should take the extra step of sparring against other styles, but they have the advantage when facing more traditionally-based fighters.

It's been repeated time and time again - STYLE is not the most important thing. Attributes win fights. The person who is stronger, faster, tougher, more pain-tolerant, who has the stronger killer instinct, familiarity with lines of attack, familiarity with ranges/phases of fighting, has better endurance, better foot-work, better base and balance, flexibility, sensitivity to the other person's movement, etc... will win.

Style does come into play with the idea of ranges/phases. Ideally, a person should be comfortable and FUNCTIONAL in the free-movement stage - kicking and punching ranges; in the clinch - trapping range and standing grappling; and on the ground. Weapons come into play too. A knife will nullify a lot of attributes.

The problem is that there isn't any one style that does this. BJJ, great on the ground, doesn't teach much in the free-movement stage. Muay Thai is hopeless on the ground. Wrestling has great clinch work, but no strikes. Boxers have the best punches, but are limited in the clinch.

There are a lot of good reasons to study a traditional art. For pure fitness, for culture, for niche sport, for fun. But if fighting is what's important to you, modern arts are the way to go.

[SamuraiGuy]

Why? Which art would baby Jesus choose?

Tiger claw system or fighting crane?
Judo or wrestling?
Muaythai or boxing?
Silat or kali?

Out of those ones , Judo of course, so he could lightly throw all his attackers to the ground without striking any of his "fellow brothers". Plus he could do the "walk on water Osoto Gari" and as he drove (or rather lightly placed) his attacker into the water he could baptise them at the same time.

[Sagacious Lu]

Out of those ones , Judo of course, so he could lightly throw all his attackers to the ground without striking any of his "fellow brothers". Plus he could do the "walk on water Osoto Gari" and as he drove (or rather lightly placed) his attacker into the water he could baptise them at the same time.

No no no man, it was his mastery of light body qi gong that allowed him to walk on water

[danfaggella]

Asheepish said some good stuff. However, like he says, if you want to be a FIGHTER, than full-contact sportive arts are you're thing. However, self-defence and personal developement are a different story most of the time. His statement about FUNCTIALIZING is very good IMO, because aplying a technique against another resisting oppoent is key for real aplication. Being a FIGHTER (IE: MMA fighter) calls for training that is identical to the competition, sparring. Being a FIGHTER (IE: boxer) calls for the same thing. Being able to defend yourself (IE: the street) calls for too much brutality than can logically be sparred with in a randori-like full-resistance way. However, these kinds of techniques can be worked into a FUNTIONAL base. If the base of your fighting is on techniques you have never actually been able to use fully on a resisting opponent, then you won't be able to work your forte' in the sreet very well. Sparring is important, the bias traditional man will say "nobody has gloves in the street," the bias modern man will say "nobody stands there and lets you hit them in the street."

Again its all about what role martial arts will have in your life. If you want to be a competitive FIGHTER, then get into Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, or boxing (which isn't a martial art, though it has great martial aplications).

Decide what you want, and go about attaining that in an open way.

PS: What says boxers have the "best" punches, I'm not going to say that for sure. Of course thier punches are very pratical but I don't beleive in gospel truths.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Why? Which art would baby Jesus choose?

Tiger claw system or fighting crane?
Judo or wrestling?
Muaythai or boxing?
Silat or kali?

How about drunken boxing? Someone who's blood tastes like wine must be wasteed 24/7.

Out of those ones , Judo of course, so he could lightly throw all his attackers to the ground without striking any of his "fellow brothers". Plus he could do the "walk on water Osoto Gari" and as he drove (or rather lightly placed) his attacker into the water he could baptise them at the same time.

Jesus doing an Osoto Gari is cool but I think Jesus doing a fireman's carry would be even better!

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

TMA and MMA dont compare to XMA at all!

[muaythaiguy15]

Depends on its purposes. If you want flexiblity and an internal martial art, tai chi is more your cup of tea. If you want stand up fighting that uses mostly strikes, muay thai. MMA is just every style thrown together. Its good if you intend to compete in MMA or you just like doing it. However, if you dont want to compete and just enjoy karate or tkd, stick with that. Martial arts is not about kicking ass and taking names (unless you want it to be).

From a street stand point, MMA is more effective then most single styles because it relys on grappling and stand up and depending on gym, usually uses both to a good degree.

[danfaggella]

Yep, cross training and mixing your martial arts gives you more to choose from, more principles, concepts, tactics, and techniques to select from and see what works for you and when. There are no gospel truths and exploring many arts benefits you in many ways.