Mixed Martial Arts, One of the oldest forms of fighting.

[J-Luck]

A couple of things.

I am not discussing what is better. I am pointing out some details to those who preach that MMA is the sum of all combat.

Warriors have learned what will help them in combat. But being that it is the consensus that MMA is not combat, but a sportive mock-reality event that pits kickboxers against each other with an element of ground submission wrestling, this becomes a point to debate only if we wish to waste each other's time.

Competition does NOT spur evolution, Mike Brewer. Necessity does. That's why you haven't seen any changes in MMA since NHB events spawned it. The entire reason that MMA came to be is because fighters needed a way to be able to find a way to deal with brazilian jujitsu while continuing to hone their stand up skills. Hence, the crash course that is MMA was born. But you haven't seen any innovations since because there was no need for one. That's why SD and UC systems are much more intricate, thorough and practical. Systems like FMA were fighting against knives, which meant they were fighting for survival. Not some quick fix answer to do better in mock competitions.

Its a known fact that when there is a necessity, an art will evolve and flourish to meet the needs of the people. Judo was brutal until Kano refined it and made it sportive. Aikijitsu was a maiming art before Ueshiba found religion and made it Aikido. Karate was a vicious fighting style where everything was full contact and the sparring alone was as intense as today's MMA. Now we're just talking about the sparring.

Last but not least, the creators of MMA did not do what Bruce Lee was attempting to do. Actually, they're doing the opposite. Bruce was an advocate of each man finding his own way, and his own methods while adhering to certain scientific and common sense principles. When you look at Bruce's students, their movements were different because they had different body types. You can't teach Kareem Abdul Jabbar to fight like Dan Inosanto, because they're two way different body types with different attributes. People are unique. So, he enhanced what was strong about those men and attempted to compensate for what was weak. MMA just teaches kickboxing with some submission wrestling, and because those two ranges are different they called it mixed martial arts. Its hardly the same thing.

In eclectic arts, the system may borrow certain strikes and techniques from other styles, but the methods are completely different. Just because a style uses a low thai roundhouse or knees doesn't mean that your approach to fighting will be that of a thai fighter. Just because you system uses hooks and uppercuts doesn't mean that you use a boxer's approach to fighting.

In MMA, when they adopt techniques, they also adopt the approach of using the technique from the system of its origin. If they want to call it reality, they should make the ring the size of an office elevator. They should have to stay in close quarters and forget about the posturing bullshit, because in the street there is no range except for CQ unless you're in a shoot out. But guess what? That would take away the entertainment value and they would lose money. And in the end, that's what its all about to the men who own these events.

It's not 100% reality. But again, it's the closest thing. You're losing the whole point. Do you contend that a MMA who is proficient in lets say... bjj, wrestling, boxing, and kickbowing would not be able to come out of a situation in an elevator with a TMA ???? If so... you are truly out of your mind.

[jubaji]

3 years on these boards and it's always been the same sh*t, same argument. -sigh- all these argument have been argued to death. If you are not presenting a new argument please just shut up and don't post.

Very well said!

[jubaji]

stay away as long as possible

Maybe I`l come back to the forum in another 4years .

Don't hurry. Make it ten years.

[jubaji]

Most MMA guys won't do it because it actually takes SKILL that takes time to acquire

don't waste energy wrestling with a guy who might be twice their size. Proof that MMA isn't an efficient method is that it doesn't work once you're fighting someone significantly bigger than you.

Did you take an extra 'stupid' pill today, pUke?

[Uke]

Your first point is just your opinion... and only a sub-par opinion at that. MMA is the sport version of Jeet Kun Do(though it has never been marketed that way, and didn't start off that way).

I have already addressed that, but its still just as stupid an uninformed as before.

I already stated that there are plenty of elite in MMA. You can't see that, then you need to take your bias clouded goggles off.

The elite who participate in NHB events are NOT MMA fighter. They are traditional fighters who compete in NHB. Crocop is a TMA. Fedor Emelianenko is a TMA. Nogueira is a TMA. Kevin Randleman is a TMA. Mark Coleman is a TMA. Hidehiko Yoshida is a TMA.

The army never adopted those. You are wrong. They adopted elements FROM them. Trained with their instructors. Never adopted them. This is official now. Bjj on the ground and stand up. Also MMA elements.

So now we're getting into semantics now? BJJ is NOT the official combat art of the armed forces. Do you know how many different systems and tactics the army goes through? This is not even a point worth debating.

Lol again wrong. They don't join becuase of the reason I stated. Not because of your idiot antics.

If you read more carefully, you would have seen that I agreed with your point about the money. But its not just money.

I know you think you've dropped some knowledge here, but you haven't, Lucky. You haven't refuted even one point. You're repeating yourself and looking foolish doing it. I believe Mike Brewer was pretty much telling you this, but in a much more diplomatic manner. Read what he wrote to you reaaaaaaal slowly.

[Uke]

Did you take an extra 'stupid' pill today, pUke?

Wow, you're back Jubbi? You were so quiet for so long I thought you were on hiatus after you got embarrassed on that last topic.

Back with more one liners?

[Uke]

It's not 100% reality. But again, it's the closest thing. You're losing the whole point. Do you contend that a MMA who is proficient in lets say... bjj, wrestling, boxing, and kickbowing would not be able to come out of a situation in an elevator with a TMA ???? If so... you are truly out of your mind.

That's not what I wrote or implied. You need to really work on your reading comprehension.

[WuChi]

This is, without exageration, one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted on the internet.

I totally agree with you on that mate. as for the rest of you wanabe, why is it that you say things like. "boxers dont care how their STYLe fares out of the ring", thats fucking nonsense., if his life depended on it he would. And another point, I dont think peole are stupid enough these days to say hez a boxer, karate etc. He is a fucking human being, and the way he trained is important, but it will never change what he is. More corect way of saying it would be a " a fighter who trains in boxing", can you buy boxing, taekwon do etc? Theydont exist, only knowledge and abilities do. You dumbasses, with the exeption of Dick and a few others. The forum is full of intellegnet people, adn children unfortunately.

[jubaji]

So now we're getting into semantics now? .

Oh, that's a funny charge coming from the likes of you!

[jubaji]

Wow, you're back Jubbi? You were so quiet for so long

Was I quiet?

[Sagacious Lu]

And Uke, I think you're losing me. You're vastly oversimplifying MMA, my friend. It has developed, and there have been major evolutions in how the game is played. I can cite for you a very clear example using one man as the common denominator - Matt Hughes. Gracie used to beat everyone, and Matt proved that conditioning and a familiarity with srtiking could supplement the ground game and provide an serious advantage. He ruined the guy who built the sport. Then, along comes St. Pierre. St. Pierre was even more well-rounded, but instead of going to the ground, he preferred to gear his strategy toward shutting it down and hone his strikes. His well roundedness and conditioning paid off. That's not only a difference in strategy - it's an evolution within a sport. The good strikers from even two or three years ago are being outpaced by the good strikers of today. Look at Rich Franklin. Look at Hughes. Saying that MMA is not evolving is like saying boxing hasn't evolved since Dempsey's heyday.

Exactly.

Nonsense. I can point out dozens of examples of kickboxers who moved over to MMA, Wrestlers who moved to Sambo, MMA, or Pride, and all manner of martial artisits from different disciplines who felt they had to prove something beyond their style. Ken Shamrock, Keith Hackney, and plenty of others fit this bill. Lu, I don't know if you've ever trained regularly at a boxing gym or not, and I won't make assumptions. But I can tell you that in all the gyms and with all the boxers I've ever trained, no boxer has ever showed the same concern for whether or not his skills would measure up in some other sport as almost every martial artist out there.

Sure you've got people who compete in different sports and who change disciplines. You didn't even mention one of my favorites, Mirko "Crocop" who made a very successful transition from kick boxing to MMA. There are lots of boxers who have competed in other sports too for that matter. My point is that if you look at MMA competitors they aren't pretending to be wrestlers, judoka or boxers- unless they happen to have that in their background. If you go to an MMA gym they aren't pretending to be preparing themselves for anything other than MMA.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, but you know from our conversations on here that I currently train at a boxing gym. With luck I may be able to come out to your high altitude training center, or if you're ever in Atl. by all means drop by and visit our gym. Seriously, that's a friendly invitation and if you ever do make it I'll spring for a pitcher of beer in the name of southern hospitality. When that happens you'll be able to see my skills for yourself; I'm not anything special but it will be obvious to you that I spend a lot of time training. Until then you'll just have to take my word for it.

If you need proof, just can through or do a search in any martial arts forum on the web for posts like "Which art would win in a fight?" Then go look for anything of the sort on a boxing forum.

This is kind of beside the point; you can find morons of all shapes and sizes on the internet. What I'm trying to say is that generally speaking once someone is an experienced sportsman (of any sort) they usually understand what their sport is and isn't. They also usually stop making insecure attacks on other styles/sports. Hell, I would go so far as to say that that understanding is part of good sportsmanship. Unfortunately sportsmanship can be hard to come by sometimes...

[Uke]

Oh, that's a funny charge coming from the likes of you!

You're like a retarded Magic 8 Ball with tourette's syndrome, jubaji. Pathetic one liners, but so angry.

[WuChi]

Oh, that's a funny charge coming from the likes of you!

Whys that? He has made some sense, where are you just babble on and no one wants to hear it. I can tell by your posts that you immature, so dont bother talking to me mate, im not listlening.

[jubaji]

I totally agree with you on that mate. as for the rest of you wanabe, why is it that you say things like. "boxers dont care how their STYLe fares out of the ring", thats fucking nonsense., if his life depended on it he would. And another point, I dont think peole are stupid enough these days to say hez a boxer, karate etc. He is a fucking human being, and the way he trained is important, but it will never change what he is. More corect way of saying it would be a " a fighter who trains in boxing", can you buy boxing, taekwon do etc? Theydont exist, only knowledge and abilities do. You dumbasses, with the exeption of Dick and a few others. The forum is full of intellegnet people, adn children unfortunately.

Here you go, champ. http://www.worldwidelearn.com/langua...esl-course.htm

[jubaji]

Whys that? He has made some sense, where are you just babble on and no one wants to hear it. I can tell by your posts that you immature, so dont bother talking to me mate, im not listlening.

You're not listlening? Not listlening? Oh, I just hate it when you don't listlen!