Mixed Martial Arts, One of the oldest forms of fighting.

[BoarSpear]

the problem really is that boarspear and uke are just such huge mma fans. watching mma all day long has made them both extremely insecure about themselves and their own training, despite being such big fans of the sport. its obvious.

im not even trying to be funny or anything like that, but this really is the problem isnt it?? i dont know why else these two would act this way.

Could you be any more ignorant? I dont watch ANY sports, your little grabbass infatuation included. The last MMA match I watched was a Gracie being humiliated, I guess that doesn't narrow it down much huh?

Trust me junior the LAST fear I have is some MMA moron giving me trouble in a streetfight...God I only hope all my opponents are so unprepared for a no rules altercation. Please lord let some dickhead try to suplex me in a knife fight.

[knifethrower]

repeating illogical bullshit over and over isn't a "strong argument," idiot

Well what do you call it after you've done it 5,479 times?

Holly fuk! He walked into that one













.

[DickHardman]

the problem really is that boarspear and uke are just such huge mma fans. watching mma all day long has made them both extremely insecure about themselves and their own training, despite being such big fans of the sport. its obvious.

im not even trying to be funny or anything like that, but this really is the problem isnt it?? i dont know why else these two would act this way.

[jubaji]

My point has always been that MMA training methods can give you attributes and abilities that translate well in the street.

He can't admit that, or his little ego would shatter into a million pieces!

[jubaji]

Tom, we've had this debate before. MMA are not proficient at any one range.

Same old nonsense over and over and over...

[BoarSpear]

Tito, others have done in self-defense situations, we could look at things objectively. We could make, in your own words, a comparison.

Tito along with Lee Murray HAVE had sd situations arise since their fame...It seems BOTH of 'em needed help from bystanders. Tito got up like an MMA clown and was kicked in the face for it...so much for MMA training kicking in during a real fight...hence the old saying, train like you want to fight because under stress you will fight like you train... Tito's ring HABITS got his ass kicked.

[BoarSpear]

you remembered.lol

Of course!! That was a real resolution!!

[Uke]

Repeating illogical bullshit over and over isn't a "strong argument".

Well what do you call it after you've done it 5,479 times?

jubaji
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: koko
Posts: 5,479

[Uke]

The same could be said of boxers, muaythai kickboxers, wrestlers etc.

The same could be said about the same skill set making them seem more competitive, but you couldn't say that these athletes make claims of being more rounded. That's reserved for MMA.

They are called well-rounded because they can do many of the things proficiently and pull them off when others cant. Who would win in a NHB situation in an alley where a fight has escalated - pick Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten, Marco Ruas, Paul Erickson etc at their best versus any heavyweight boxing champ, K-1 champ - I'd give it to those MMA guys.

Tom, we've had this debate before. MMA are not proficient at any one range. And your point about who would win between MMA or boxing/K-1 in an alley is meaningless here. K-1 fighters and boxers are aware that they're training for sports. MMA fighters are the only ones who seem to be indifferent about that.

Even Pro's cross train.

Shannon Briggs was a top-heavyweight contender who cross trained in MMA. He did rather well in K-1 because of his superior boxing skills - KO-ing an MMA fighter in the first round.

When asked if he would continue fighting in K-1 after this fight, he decided against it because he admitted that he can't take leg kicks and thus ended his kickboxing career after his first match, despite a handsome victory.

In an unrelated incident, Briggs got into a brawl at a party with a few pro-NFL defensive linemen. One of them tried to tackle Briggs and slam him around like a rag doll - thankfully Briggs had cross trained in grappling and was able to get back on his feet and pummel the daylight out of these hulking athletes. They took him to court over it. Imagine if Briggs couldn't fight off his feet, they would have stomped him good.

Tom, your example of Shannon Briggs is just as bad as your last example of Lucia Rijker. Shannon is a journeyman who is usually cannon fodder for up and comers. He got lucky against Liakhovich recently, but he couldn't even celebrate because he was doubled over from exhaustion in a fight that he threw less than 100 punches in 12 rounds. So it makes sense that you'd highlight a boxer like Briggs to strengthen your argument. Briggs is also a part time model and actor. Maybe he can add that to his crosstraining resume too. And don't make me look for the film where Rijker gets immediate knocked out by a kickboxer when she ventures out of women's boxing. Please.

Another classic example of cross training is the Sudo vs. Butterbean fight. Let's face it, Sudo would have flat out lost to Butterbean if had been a boxing venue - you can't make up for a 150-lb weight difference in boxing alone - but the little guy figured out how to get Bean down and executed a text book heel hook. Great example of how being well rounded works.

Sure it was in the ring, but you can make up a scenario where I don't know - Bean and Sudo were in a bar, Bean gets angry at Sudo and wanted to manhandle him a little.

Karate, kung fu, savate, and most other arts have kicked and punched before MMA existed. Those arts have been well rounded before you or I existed. So its a bit silly to begin pretending that the well roundness of kicking, punching and other striking began with MMA events. The roundness term comes from the fact that MMA threw submission wrestling into the mix. NOT A THING ELSE.

But thanks for stopping by, Tom. Always great to see you.

[jubaji]

repeating illogical bullshit over and over isn't a "strong argument," idiot

I haven't had to drop one name because my points and arguments have been strong enough to speak for themselves.

Only in your little pea brain.....

[Uke]

Mike I'm going to make this as short as possible.

I'm not the only one who feels the way I do here. IPON took the time out to reply and address many of the things you've written and he beautifully refuted them all. You glossed over that too. There right in post #167 if you missed it.

Second, I know that many SD schools adopt MMA for the reasons that I gave because I know many people who run the schools. PERIOD! You can dismiss this point, but until you run your own school and keep it open with just boxing, then you're playing the assumption game again.

Next, and I feel this needs to be said ... Just because you've gotten something to work for you doesn't mean that it isn't irresponsible to advocate a method that may be risky or dangerous.

Next, I didn't need to come up with anything better than "Maybe those things are missing in YOUR school". It wasn't an attack, just a statement meant to let you know you can't name a reputable school where what you wrote applies. And you still haven't. PERIOD.

Last but not least, all the things you've written in your last post here are addressing points that have already been discussed and addressed. You always do this. You never stick to the topic or points at hand, and decide to go on and on about what you feel I've implied, instead of just reading what I've written.

Post #60 on this topic addresses all the things you've decided to argue today, Mike. Please re-read it and see that most of the minor points that you're speaking about now have already been agreed to and done away with.

Oh and Mike, don't start putting up Vunak as some name that is beyond reproach here. I haven't had to drop one name because my points and arguments have been strong enough to speak for themselves. I have no intentions of discussing your instructor's merits or experience, but if you're going to try to strengthen your arguments with simple name dropping then you're going to change the very nature of this debate. I'm letting you know ahead of time.

[Tom Yum]

No Ma'am.

It doesn't fit in with my new years resolutions.

you remembered.lol

[Tom Yum]

If MMA fighters are so damn skilled and well rounded at fighting in the ring, tell us all Mike why they don't dominate other combat sports like K-1 or professional boxing? Could it be that they are not as skilled and well rounded as you think? Could it be that they just master their own skill sets in their own events and compete against others who use the same skill sets?..

The same could be said of boxers, muaythai kickboxers, wrestlers etc.

Why call them well rounded if they fail in other sport-fighting events where specific ranges are tested, and the majority of MMA fail? I said majority, not all. You, like others want to call out the few exceptions, but refuse to acknowledge the rule. When less than 5% of MMA succeed in other events despite being professional athletes in top shape, it DIRECTLY reflects on their skills, not their toughness. You're absolutely right about that, Mike..

They are called well-rounded because they can do many of the things proficiently and pull them off when others cant.

Who would win in a NHB situation in an alley where a fight has escalated - pick Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten, Marco Ruas, Paul Erickson etc at their best versus any heavyweight boxing champ, K-1 champ - I'd give it to those MMA guys.

This is an example where MMA type fighting is superior to ring sports in terms of empty-handed self-defense, but is still considered a ring sport itself.

You can call into question how combative practitioners would do, but they are not professional fighters or in the shape that professional fighters are in. However, MMA's can always enter the full contact weapon events to see if they are as well rounded as Mike implies, but you don't see that often. And there's no wonder why.Just so its clear, I'm not being hostile about this. This is way too easy to have to get emotionally invested in.

Even Pro's cross train.

Shannon Briggs was a top-heavyweight boxing contender who cross trained in MMA. He did rather well in K-1 because of his superior boxing skills - KO-ing an MMA fighter in the first round.

When asked if he would continue fighting in K-1 after this fight, he decided against it because he admitted that he can't take leg kicks and thus ended his kickboxing career after his first match, despite a handsome victory.

In an unrelated incident, Briggs got into a brawl at a party with a few pro-NFL defensive linemen. One of them tried to tackle Briggs and slam him around like a rag doll - thankfully Briggs had cross trained in grappling and was able to get back on his feet and pummel the daylight out of two hulking athletes and GTFO. They took him to court over it. Imagine if Briggs couldn't fight off his feet, they would have stomped him good.

Another classic example of cross training is the Sudo vs. Butterbean fight. Let's face it, Sudo would have flat out lost to Butterbean if had been a boxing venue - you can't make up for a 150-lb weight difference in boxing alone - but the little guy figured out how to get Bean down and executed a text book heel hook. Great example of how being well rounded works.

Another example of how even a simple move executed by an MMA practitioner, not a master grappler, earned him a victory against a much, much stronger opponent.

Sure it was in the ring, but you can make up a scenario where I don't know - Bean and Sudo were in a bar, Bean gets angry at Sudo and tries to manhandle him, which people still do these days.

[kingoftheforest]

I can't believe I missed this thread...

I can't believe it's not butter

[SamuraiGuy]

I can't believe I missed this thread...