Mixed Martial Arts, One of the oldest forms of fighting.

[DickHardman]

i think you need to stop trolling the mma forum and get a life.

[Uke]

sorry bro, but you really need to stfu.

I'd love to DickHardman. I really, really, would. But I know that people like you would then go on talking endless shit about things that you don't know about. And you know that you don't know anything and that's why you never write anything intelligently.

Its fine if you want to live in the world of fantasy combat. No one would say a thing to any of you sea monkeys if you'd just stop making ridiculous comparisons between mock and reality combat methods. There's no reason for you and people like you to pretend that what you're able to pull off in the sandbox will work once you leave the kiddie park and enter the street.

[DickHardman]

Wow, you go out for a while and a lot can happen!

Keep in mind, it was Boarspear that said he didn't watch sports, not me. I am a big boxing fan and have been around it my whole life. I watch some MMA when its available, but I wouldn't pay to see it. I'd much rather watch boxing.

Boar, I think you're getting sucked in a little "bait and trap" game here. MMA desperados will bombard you with so many posts that the minute you don't answer one, you're said to be weak or uninformed.

What it boils down to is that for all the events that they can name, they will NEVER tell you a time when an MMA has done well in a full contact weapon tournament. Mike admits that the reality of non-rule based combat is weapons, but advocates going out and putting energy into contests that are sporting to use for real fights. Go figure!! So basically, Mike is telling everyone to go train your brain for sportive responses to lethal situations. A guy pulls out a knife, Mike will tell you to throw a low kick and box him. A guy produces a pair of brass knuckles, and Mike will tell you to push him back as sort of a reset, so when the guy approaches again, he can work whatever technique he has in mind. But wouldn't it have been more intelligent to jump on the guy and commence to beating the shit out of him as soon as he went for the weapon or even as soon as you saw it? Why give him a chance to kill you? BECAUSE ITS THE MMA FAIR FIGHT MINDSET!!! Hooray!

If the debate at hand is about MMA not being reality, then we've made our point a thousand times. If the point that Mike and company is trying to drive home is that MMA is as close to reality as you can come without risking death, then they are wrong again! I previously agreed to that point as a measure of giving a little and taking a little. But MMA is hardly the closest that you can come to reality when there are full contact weapon contests popping up all around the country.

Its hilarious to see everyone pile up on you once I was gone for just a day. But do you know what? They shame themselves because instead of using this time to formulate a stronger argument, all they've done is add more suppositions and insults.

MMA advocates on this site insist that MMA combat training methods(not MMA conditioning methods) are adequate enough to use when training for survival in situations where your life is on the line. That's what Mike Brewer has been saying THIS ENTIRE TIME. He speaks of being hit, pain tolerance, mental toughness and other qualities that are much more necessary against weapons than they are against man to man. And you see EVERY ONE of those qualities in full contact weapon tournaments. You see them much more abundantly there than you do in MMA, but let me play the assuming game right along with Mike and say that he probably doesn't know that!

Mike also asks questions like "Then why do the Dog Brothers train in MMA if its so non-real?". The Dog Brothers don't train in MMA. MMA are pseudo-kickboxers who now train in submission wrestling. Look at what the top guy. Look at what the originator had in mind. Eric Knaus is a hardcore weapons man and the best of the Dog Brothers trained by Gaje here in NY in Jamaica, Queens. He always advocated training without pads and the pain and injuries would make you faster, stronger and better. Marc Denny started to put his mix of things in later, but Eric Knaus was a full contact weapons man, not a roll around on the ground man. They would practice in that fashion for hours. And guess who wouldn't play with the big dogs when they first got together? Guess who began advising people NOT to go spar with Eric Knaus? You might have guessed it. It was Paul Vunak. So it makes sense that you feel the way that you do, Mike.

And by the way, just because the Dog Brothers acknowledge that they need to be prepared if they get taken down doesn't make them MMA. That would mean that BJJ players are MMA fighters as well, but they aren't. Royce Gracie is NOT an MMA fighter, but he'll punch and kick until he gets close enough to grapple! Rickson punched and kicked all of the time but he is a BJJ man! Renzo knocked out Taktarov with a kick, but he is a BJJ player! The Dog Brothers are doing what I've been advocating. Learning newaza techniques to get back off the ground without taking serious damage. I'm sure if some people want to further their study of BJJ, it's their option. But the practical application of reality techniques comes from weapon offense and takedown and ground grappling defense.

Last, even at Dog Brother's events they're using pads these days. THESE type of events are as close as you can get to reality without the death. But there are many injuries. And there is a resemblance to real combat in that you'll see less stupid risks taken because even though its not a kill or be killed situation, you can still get really hurt in these competitions.

The way an intelligent man fights is designed around the most lethal ways that he can be harmed and/or killed which are edged weapons and firearms. His goal is to work smarter, not harder. His training is geared to maximize his efforts by being armed and dirty, not to be fair or fun.

Now if you want to go ahead with Mike's advice, you can look forward to team spirit, camaraderie and a sportive attitude towards dealing with gang members, muggers and rapists. But anyone who can put their personal feelings aside, be honest with themselves and remain open-minded just received the message directly above in bold letters. Sportive methods are designed to be used against other sportive methods. And while I'm positive that a professional MMA fighter who is in top shape would mangle the average mugger if it were a clean, one on one fair fight, its almost never that way. And when Mike argues that most street altercations aren't lethal most of the time, he's telling you in an indirect manner that you don't have to be prepared for them when they are.

sorry bro, but you really need to stfu.

[Uke]

Wow, you go out for a while and a lot can happen!

Keep in mind, it was Boarspear that said he didn't watch sports, not me. I am a big boxing fan and have been around it my whole life. I watch some MMA when its available, but I wouldn't pay to see it. I'd much rather watch boxing.

Boar, I think you're getting sucked in a little "bait and trap" game here. MMA desperados will bombard you with so many posts that the minute you don't answer one, you're said to be weak or uninformed.

What it boils down to is that for all the events that they can name, they will NEVER tell you a time when an MMA has done well in a full contact weapon tournament. Mike admits that the reality of non-rule based combat is weapons, but advocates going out and putting energy into contests that are sporting to use for real fights. Go figure!! So basically, Mike is telling everyone to go train your brain for sportive responses to lethal situations. A guy pulls out a knife, Mike will tell you to throw a low kick and box him. A guy produces a pair of brass knuckles, and Mike will tell you to push him back as sort of a reset, so when the guy approaches again, he can work whatever technique he has in mind. But wouldn't it have been more intelligent to jump on the guy and commence to beating the shit out of him as soon as he went for the weapon or even as soon as you saw it? Why give him a chance to kill you? BECAUSE ITS THE MMA FAIR FIGHT MINDSET!!! Hooray!

If the debate at hand is about MMA not being reality, then we've made our point a thousand times. If the point that Mike and company is trying to drive home is that MMA is as close to reality as you can come without risking death, then they are wrong again! I previously agreed to that point as a measure of giving a little and taking a little. But MMA is hardly the closest that you can come to reality when there are full contact weapon contests popping up all around the country.

Its hilarious to see everyone pile up on you once I was gone for just a day. But do you know what? They shame themselves because instead of using this time to formulate a stronger argument, all they've done is add more suppositions and insults.

MMA advocates on this site insist that MMA combat training methods(not MMA conditioning methods) are adequate enough to use when training for survival in situations where your life is on the line. That's what Mike Brewer has been saying THIS ENTIRE TIME. He speaks of being hit, pain tolerance, mental toughness and other qualities that are much more necessary against weapons than they are against man to man. And you see EVERY ONE of those qualities in full contact weapon tournaments. You see them much more abundantly there than you do in MMA, but let me play the assuming game right along with Mike and say that he probably doesn't know that!

Mike also asks questions like "Then why do the Dog Brothers train in MMA if its so non-real?". The Dog Brothers don't train in MMA. MMA are pseudo-kickboxers who now train in submission wrestling. Look at what the top guy. Look at what the originator had in mind. Eric Knaus is a hardcore weapons man and the best of the Dog Brothers trained by Gaje here in NY in Jamaica, Queens. He always advocated training without pads and the pain and injuries would make you faster, stronger and better. Marc Denny started to put his mix of things in later, but Eric Knaus was a full contact weapons man, not a roll around on the ground man. They would practice in that fashion for hours. And guess who wouldn't play with the big dogs when they first got together? Guess who began advising people NOT to go spar with Eric Knaus? You might have guessed it. It was Paul Vunak. So it makes sense that you feel the way that you do, Mike.

And by the way, just because the Dog Brothers acknowledge that they need to be prepared if they get taken down doesn't make them MMA. That would mean that BJJ players are MMA fighters as well, but they aren't. Royce Gracie is NOT an MMA fighter, but he'll punch and kick until he gets close enough to grapple! Rickson punched and kicked all of the time but he is a BJJ man! Renzo knocked out Taktarov with a kick, but he is a BJJ player! The Dog Brothers are doing what I've been advocating. Learning newaza techniques to get back off the ground without taking serious damage. I'm sure if some people want to further their study of BJJ, it's their option. But the practical application of reality techniques comes from weapon offense and takedown and ground grappling defense.

Last, even at Dog Brother's events they're using pads these days. THESE type of events are as close as you can get to reality without the death. But there are many injuries. And there is a resemblance to real combat in that you'll see less stupid risks taken because even though its not a kill or be killed situation, you can still get really hurt in these competitions.

The way an intelligent man fights is designed around the most lethal ways that he can be harmed and/or killed which are edged weapons and firearms. His goal is to work smarter, not harder. His training is geared to maximize his efforts by being armed and dirty, not to be fair or fun.

Now if you want to go ahead with Mike's advice, you can look forward to team spirit, camaraderie and a sportive attitude towards dealing with gang members, muggers and rapists. But anyone who can put their personal feelings aside, be honest with themselves and remain open-minded just received the message directly above in bold letters. Sportive methods are designed to be used against other sportive methods. And while I'm positive that a professional MMA fighter who is in top shape would mangle the average mugger if it were a clean, one on one fair fight, its almost never that way. And when Mike argues that most street altercations aren't lethal most of the time, he's telling you in an indirect manner that you don't have to be prepared for them when they are.

[jubaji]

B] I recognize my own ignorance. Why don't you pony up and do the same?

Everyone reading this thread (and every other thread he has vomited into) knows why.

[BoarSpear]

Sincerest apologies. I was typing while you were asking your question.

I don't honestly know what percentage of the SFCQ (if that's even the official term) hand to hand course is MMA based. As you're well aware, my company's contract was terminated in June, so I have not been doing any training in an official capacity since that time. I have however worked with approximately 1,000 soldiers from combat arms and combat support MOS's on a volunteer (unpaid) basis since June, and I can tell you that roughly 25% of their time - a total of 80 hours out of 8 weeks - is spent on MMA type combatives. By comparison, roughly 20 hours (1/4 of that number) is spent on rifle marksmanship.

And it's so ineffective and worthless that not one of the soldiers I've trained has even been injured in combat. Oh wait. I mentioned that already.

Could it be thats because its FREE to let them wrestle etc but letting them expend ammo cost money....You do know about SF people in Afghanistan buying/borrowing their ammo from other countries SF because the ammo they were supplied didn't function and was low bid and made in PAKISTAN?

Oh yeah I heard you, Believe me I heard you...I just can't believe you're that big a dickhead.

[BoarSpear]

For the record, my own curriculum is a matter for my students. If you care to pay the membership fee, you'll have total access.

Right back at ya bucko. I've got well over 20 gigs of video ONLINE available of techniques and training thats accessed by operators and students all over the globe...We're on a break from a 10 day blade camp...hence my dropping by its the first chance I've had to fuk off...

What can I say? I trained over 5,000 deploying troops last year for combat, and not one of them has been killed or injured since going. Not one of them has been killed or injured since going. Let me say that again. Not one of the troops I trained for war has been killed or injured in combat since I trained them. Those are not estimates, by the way. They are stats kept by the DoD. So something must be working, eh? After all, my student body has been at war in the most hostile region on God's earth and they've all been coming home safe and sound. The guys I have who aren't military have been doing things here like winning the State's Golden Gloves tournaments and keeping police and security jobs without injury. All in all, that makes me feel pretty good. SO thanks for asking.

HOLY SHIT!! I'm sure as superstitious soldiers in the field and families are they will ALL be so thrilled you said that to prove your E-Baddassness.

[jubaji]

What about you, Bore? How do you train your guys?

He plays with KOTF with rubber knives for 20 minutes, then talks about what he 'could' do in this or that situation for 3 hours.

[BoarSpear]

As a post script, I must say that despite our differences and the fact that I see you as someone commenting out of total and complete ignorance, I really do respect the fact hat you've achieved some level of success in your own training without MMA. I know you may not believe me, but I respect the hell out of what you've accomplished and what you've been able to achieve in terms of your own effectiveness. I mean that in the sincerest and most heartfelt way I know.

What I'd love to see, and I mean LOVE to see, is for you to describe how someone could train for effectiveness in your average street confrontation using other methods besides MMA. Those methods are obviously out there, and I know you're something of an expert in them, so how about it? Why not discuss what people could be doing better instead of just shitting on what so many people better than you have decided is an effective way to go?

After all, this is what an average streetfight looks like.

http://www.comegetyousome.com/videos.php?cat=Fight

This is hardly the kind of circumstance that calls for a death touch or a knifing. Just scan the net or go to your local bar. Most streetfights are closer to the things you see here than the kind of worst case lethal encounter you'retalking about, right? After all...how many people have you had to kill in your life? And how many fights have you been in? Since you've been fighting for real since the early 60's, I'd guess you've seen your share of violent offenses. And since you're enjoying your freedom and typing on this forum from the comfort of your home/school, I'd guess you haven't had to kill too awful many people. So it seems clear that you, like me, have found far more use for non-lethal techniques than the lethal stuff, right? To a layman and ignoramus like me, it seems MMA is well-suited to that kind of non-lethal event. But since you are by far the more experienced and wiser of the two of us, and since you clearly see how MMA will get you killed in an average streetfight, I seriously and humbly welcome any input you have on how the rest of us can train without MMA for the kind of events that we're probably going to have to face in our lifetime.

Thanks in advance for sharing.

Nice dodge...Answer the question...what percentage of the 6 phases of the CURRENT SFCQ training the Green Beret's etc receive is MMA or bjj? UH HUH we both know why you dodged the question don't we....because it blows EVERY pro mma bjj for SD post you've ever made right the window doesn't it?

Like I said I'm not arguing proven facts with you anymore...thats why I questioned you so hard about your pro MMA stance before for the Military...it's being phased the FUK out Bro... NO SF people get it anymore...it's essentially WW2 combatives....AGAIN. So much for how important it is...its been called a MISTAKE and admitted failure by its creator MSGT Larson. TTFN it's been fun visiting the zoo.

Oh BTW I TRIED MANY times to discuss my training methods,All that got me was heckled by every MMA fan on the board... I invited several board members to come see for themselves, some did... some didnt...others including you have seen videos...I dare say none of the people who heckle me have had anyone verify their ability to get out from behind a keyboard..with the exception of you Mike. So thanks but its already been proven this isnt the place for me to discuss the arts with those with an open mind.

[jubaji]

Oh, my bad, see I didn't understand that in return for all your sarcasm, personal attacks and insults and general fuktard behavior I was supposed to share my art with you.

LOL! Oh no, don't withold all that great wisdom!

[BoarSpear]

Bore,
In classic drama princess fashion, you're calling my opinions personal attacks. I said at the very beginning that my interpretation of soft arts was nothing but my personal oppinion, and that I was completely ignorant of your training methods. I have no problem admitting I don't know something, and I have not yet said anything negative about your training methods. So if you have some kind of problem with my definition, correct it. Like I said, I have no problem admitting that I am speaking on pure opinion, so your opinion would be welcome. But little passive aggressive tirades about how "classic" my admittedly personal opinions are just go to show what a closed-minded, stuck in the sixties martial artist you really are.

I'm sorry. That came across as insulting. What I mean is, (and I've said this so many times before it's tiresome) you're entitled to your limited, one-sided, biased opinion. But people who are actually willing to go out and experience the things you're hiding from will always be able to see through your rhetoric, and they will always argue with you on the point, even though I can clearly see it's pointless. So go ahead and hide behind whatever claims of lethality you choose. The simple and indisputable fact of the matter is that while you do so, millions of people will train in MMA type arts, and almost all of them will be just fine in self-defense situations for the rest of their lives. I don't know how something so simple and self-apparent as that can be so easily denied by you, but it really doesn't matter. The facts are enough to keep people from taking your word for it, and those same facts seem to be enough to keep people thinking for themselves.

So whatever it is you train, I'm sincerely glad it works for you. Keep training it. But don't think for a second that your experiences in the 60's will have any influence whatever on people training in MMA methods today (HUUUUGE difference in arts and methods, by the way). And please, don't think that because you had some experience in sport judo nearly 4 decades ago that you have any kind of understanding of what modern day athletes go through to achieve expertise. You said it clearly enough. You don't follow sports, and you have no concept of what modern athletes go through. That alone is enough to show that you are totally unqualified to voice any opinion whatever about what benefits sports training can have. It's okay, bore, you can be an expert in tai chi and knife fighting. We can all respect you for that, and I personally do, no matter how ignorant I know you to be on this topic. But no matter what level of expertise you have in your own areas of training, you're talking out of your ass on this topic, and your own comments prove it. Thankfully, I'm not posting any new information. Most of the people here can plainly see that for themselves, and I doubt any of them will hang up their current (and likely effective) training methods because a guy who never watches sports wants to give them advice on how useful sports can be.

Uh huh...so tell us about the Curriculum in SFCQ Mr Brewer...I'm curious about
the 6 phases being currently taught...so please tell us what it is...what percentage is MMA or BJJ in SFCQ Mike?

Sport judo? I Haven't evolved since the 60's? where did you pull those 'Facts" from? oh yeah your ass...lies about my training count as personal attacks.

[BoarSpear]

hey well even when i tried to legitimately find out if you had something relivant to say behind all this bs, and after trying to find out for myself if there really was more to all this nonsense other than you just being insecure of your own abilities, i realize that no, you really are that insecure.

im done with this thread. thanks for nothing asshole.

Oh, my bad, see I didn't understand that in return for all your sarcasm, personal attacks and insults and general fuktard behavior I was supposed to share my art with you.

[jubaji]

Nope...all the throws were designed to kill or cripple the opponent...

Where have we heard that before?




...............

[knifethrower]

By studying and practicing with someone who knows the art.

Oh, uh..................that too........




.

[DickHardman]

By studying and practicing with someone who knows the art.

hey well even when i tried to legitimately find out if you had something relivant to say behind all this bs, and after trying to find out for myself if there really was more to all this nonsense other than you just being insecure of your own abilities, i realize that no, you really are that insecure.

im done with this thread. thanks for nothing asshole.