Ufc 73 Stacked

[jubaji]

I think I have a decent idea of what the two kinds of "in shape" are.

Well, it doesn't sound like it.

[jubaji]

I try not to worry about it. Though I may speak on myself, my record will truly speak for itself.

It will? Or it has, or does? Which is it?

[Red Rum]

Hmmm, it would seem we have different ideas about what constitutes wrestling shape, and perhaps different experience.

Regrettably I have to agree with Jubajii - wrestlers are about the best athelets in the world. And the quote by J Luck that MMA is better for cardiovascular training is very open. What MMA? I could train wing chun and escrima (which is technically MMA) and get no workout at all from it.

Or I could do BJJ followed by a boxing session and get a great workout.

[J-Luck]

Well, it doesn't sound like it.

Nope, I certainly do.

Cover up, you ignorance is showing...

[J-Luck]

Regrettably I have to agree with Jubajii - wrestlers are about the best athelets in the world. And the quote by J Luck that MMA is better for cardiovascular training is very open. What MMA? I could train wing chun and escrima (which is technically MMA) and get no workout at all from it.

Or I could do BJJ followed by a boxing session and get a great workout.

Why do you regret it? You're both definitively wrong, so it's really irrelevant and purposeless to be regretful. No, you do not train MMA lol. Not even close.

Go to a real MMA gym. Go to AKA, ATT, MFS, Jackson's camp down in NM, or any assortment of top, or even mediocre MMA gyms. There are far more aspects in MMA to consider, one of which is wrestling. MMA is the toughest sport as far as conditioning.

Another reason MMA fighters have better conditioning? More money, better training. It's the same reason that MMA fighters don't have better boxing skills(top boxing trainers aren't going to work with low paid mma fighters). Bring some money into wrestling and you'll see better conditioning.

Like I said, I train with plenty of D-1 wrestlers. They all now train MMA. They all agree that top notch MMA and top notch wrestling are not the same as far as getting in shape. MMA is definitely better.

[jubaji]

Nope, I certainly do.

Cover up, you ignorance is showing...

Well, that was a lot of nothing...

[jubaji]

Why do you regret it? You're both definitively wrong, .

Oh, I see now. What's that they say about the converted?

[jubaji]

you've just crossed the line into stupidville

Bring some money into wrestling and you'll see better conditioning.

And now, inevitably, reason has gone right out the door.

[J-Luck]

And now, inevitably, reason has gone right out the door.

The problem with intelligent, yet condecending people sucha as yourself, is that you, at times, will be wrong, and yet not able to step out side of yourself and use any critical thinking skills.

I can already see why you think what you think. You were a D-1 wrestler, who spent much time at the top levels of the sport, and invested extensive time and energy into wrestling. Don't think I'm knocking wrestling. I'm an ever improving wrestler, and to be honest, I consider myself a wrestler out of all the combat sports I study. Literally, if someone asks me what I am(as far as boxer, kickboxer, wrestler, jiu-jitsu practitioner) I tell them wrestler. Every time, undoubtedly. I'm just a wrestler who knows some other stuff.

Now, that being said, I still can't deny logic. Why wouldn't MMA be better conditioning? It's got wrestling as a component, along with other difficult combat sports. You've got to train for multiple scenerios, and multiple ranges. You've got to have enough endurance to prepare for a full on boxing match if the fight goes that way. Or wrestling match. Muay Thai match. Jiu-jitsu match. It's got nothing to do with whether or not wrestling is tough, that's never been in question. It's just logic.

Critical thinkin and logic entails stepping over preconcieved notions and bias. You've gotta keep that in mind Juba.

[buster brown]

wrestling harder than mma

I agree that wrestling is more strenous than mma, because of the various components tha make up mma....like the stand up game, as an example.
In the stand up game its much easier to flow, breathe and take time off if need be.
In wrestling theres always the body on body contact, always exertion and the constant, of trying to improve your position.
If thats not there then the wrestler is in jepardy of being dinged for stalling and losing a point or points......

I know this is will probably bring up a argument and say this strictly as my opinion, but I also see wrestling as more strenous than BJJ. Simply because of the guard position and they ablity to hold/ hang on and ....again my opinon STALL......
I'am a former Kickboxer a present wrestling coach(D-1 high school Ohio)
and I also fight in the dog brothers gathering of the packs....no expert but I have some experience.
Please don't let me get between your squables....just wanted to offer an opinon.
By the way......In closing...another opinion about the stand up game.
Nothing saps away your cardio like getting punched and kicked....So yea you neeed to be in shape for the stand up game as well.
BB

[jubaji]

Now, that being said, I still can't deny logic. Why wouldn't MMA be better conditioning? It's got wrestling as a component, along with other difficult combat sports. You've got to train for multiple scenerios, and multiple ranges. You've got to have enough endurance to prepare for a full on boxing match if the fight goes that way. Or wrestling match. Muay Thai match. Jiu-jitsu match. It's got nothing to do with whether or not wrestling is tough, that's never been in question. It's just logic.

Critical thinkin and logic entails stepping over preconcieved notions and bias. You've gotta keep that in mind Juba.

Your "critical thinking" is not what you think it is; based as it is on faulty assumptions.

I would never say that boxers are in 'worse' shape than wrestlers. Wrestling shape is different than boxing shape. Take a highly conditioned boxer and put him in a wrestling match and he'll gas in no time. Put a highly conditioned wrestler in a boxing match and the same will happen. Now, what do you think that says about MMA? I know what you want to think, but you're mistaken. You seem to want to believe in some false transitive property of conditioning. You're right that many successful MMAers are former wrestlers, but you take the most successful of them and put them back in a high level wrestling match and they will gas out in short order. Why? because they've been training for something else. Not better, not worse, just something else.

You're drawing false conclusions based on faulty logic and what you want to believe about the context you have decided to invest all your ego in.

[J-Luck]

Your "critical thinking" is not what you think it is; based as it is on faulty assumptions.

I would never say that boxers are in 'worse' shape than wrestlers. Wrestling shape is different than boxing shape. Take a highly conditioned boxer and put him in a wrestling match and he'll gas in no time. Put a highly conditioned wrestler in a boxing match and the same will happen. Now, what do you think that says about MMA? I know what you want to think, but you're mistaken. You seem to want to believe in some false transitive property of conditioning. You're right that many successful MMAers are former wrestlers, but you take the most successful of them and put them back in a high level wrestling match and they will gas out in short order. Why? because they've been training for something else. Not better, not worse, just something else.

You're drawing false conclusions based on faulty logic and what you want to believe about the context you have decided to invest all your ego in.

Blah, I'm done debating you. You don't listen to logic, nor reason. Plenty of MMA fighters go straight into high level wrestling(kid yamamoto comes to mind). And Sherk has been quoted multiple times as saying that his conditioning is better than anything wrestling ever did for him. Not to mention all the pro fighters out there who agree with him.

I look forward to your posts in the future, and may you not be ignorant, debate from the correct position, and learn to listen.

[jubaji]

and your example got his ass kicked and arm broken, he was so dominant

Plenty of MMA fighters go straight into high level wrestling.

No, "plenty" of them come from high level wrestling, not into it.

[jubaji]

Blah, I'm done debating you. You don't listen to logic, nor reason.

Good idea. The failure of logic and reasoning here is yours.

[Clooneytkd]

as a fellow wrestler i have also gone into some striking and bjj. i agree that wrestling is more demanding. trainig mma by no means is less efective, but you have to take into consideration the amount force your putting on your body and your mind. in wrestling there never really is a break, once your tired you are screwed, not to say that mma is any different but you can just sit there in gaurd and rest, take your time, breath a little. wrestling is constant, your being forced to do something where as in mma you can back up dodge punches, lay down, or even drag your ass on the ground if you like.
until you have wrestled state champion calibure wrestlers or better and have had to deal with there constant attacks without rest i probably wouldnt give many people the benefit of thinking they were right. most of this stuff has to do with work ethic whitch most wrestlers have because they have to, to win anyways.