You vs. 3

[Shoot]

It's 1:30 a.m. You're walking with your wife/child/friend/husband/significant other who has a broken arm back to your car which is parked about a quarter mile away. It's winter, cold, wet. You're walking in a typical downtown environment--street curbs, debris, cars parked, buildings, etc... Except, you're walking down a "quiet" street far from any people--any other people. As you walk to your car you're startled by a bottle crashing near you. It was thrown from behind. The next thing you know 3 young men are behind you about 20 feet away. They begin to taunt and shout at you and yell that they are going to "kick your asses." They begin to charge. If you had to pick one item, trait, training, background, or skill in this situation what would it be?

1. Superior striking
2. Superior grappling
3. MMA training
4. "Self Defense training" that specifically included "multiple opponent" training
5. A weapon--gun, knife, pepper spray, taser, baton
6. Superior running speed
7. Superior strength and conditioning (e.g. being in great shape and stronger than 90% of grown men).
8. Other?

[freeBatjko]

You're describing a text book situation for a self-defense situation against 3 opponents. One of your possible answers is: having self-defense training, specifically against 3 opponents... seems quite obvious to me.

I wouldn't use a weapon, because it may fail to be effective if you're not already really good at it.
Better speed or strength doesn't help much if you have to protect more people than just yourself, because at least one of the three always gets at your wife or kid.
Same with any particualr "superior" techniques or styles you may want to know... Doesn't help if you're not specifically trained to handle 3 bad guys.

The only thing better than the mentioned specific self-defense training in this situation is being a magician! Wave your wand and all three attackers are flying into the air with their underpants over their heads, never seen again.

-free-

[seany85]

Run, and run some more.

[bodhisattva]

definitely a weapon, or the ability to run like ben johnson. i don't believe anyone is easily defeating three opponents. i'm not saying there isn't anyone who can do it - i know there is.. especially depending on who the three opponents are..

but me? no. i want to beat feet and get the feck out of dodge.

[bodhisattva]

Try to understand - This is how I explain it at the Training Circle if someone brings it up:

Even if you are fighting only TWO guys weighing 130 pounds each - two skinny 130 pound dudes...

That's a 260 pound guy, with four fists/elbows and four knees/kicks, and he can be in two places at once and surround you with himself.

SCREW that.

(and that metaphor isn't entirely true - they still hit like 130 pounders, they don't have the power of a 260 pounder.. and they still fall like 130 pounders - they don't have the same jaw as a 260 pounder or the same ability to wrestle/counter-wrestle.)

But keep in mind, they must be determined opponents as opposed to opponents involved in an ego battle - smack around.

2 determined opponents is hard for most anyone to deal with, regardless of how movies show it or kali guro and aikido sensei talk about it.

[Hot_Wings]

People in America largely have not had the kind of encounters that Mike Brewer described. But don’t be fooled, these things happen every day. You just never hear about it because, like in this case, there was no crime report written and it wasn’t on the news.

A friend of mine was attacked by 3 people who all had weapons on them. The criminal element wants to “Get away with Crime.” They don’t want a fair fight. If you’re going to be attacked in this day and age it is most likely going to be against more than one person and you can bet your butt that they will have weapons, all kinds of weapons.

We don’t have very high crime rates here in America, but you never know how bad they could get at a moments notice. Just take a look at what happened in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. Criminals were even shooting at rescue helicopters. If you think that’s all people were shooting at then guess again. A lot of the crimes that happened in New Orleans weren’t even reported on the news because, after the first two days, News agencies and the government knew that it if more of the truth about how bad the crime was during that event then it would panic the entire nation. Most people really have no clue how close some American cities really are to having a total breakdown of law and order.

Over 2000 people are still unaccounted for from that breakdown that happened in New Orleans. In 2006 and 2007 New Orleans was the listed as the murder capital of America. The criminals there had a good taste of how easy crime really is during the hurricane and they don’t want to go back to playing nice anymore.

Learn weapons my friend, and carry them. Most of the oldest martial arts forms know all use and train in weapons. This is no accident.

Mike, I bet you never even wondered what the real reason was that they thought brave enough to try and zap you with that stun gun. Well guess what. Most times, the real reason that criminals feel brave isn’t because they have superior numbers. It is because almost all of them are carrying weapons. I’m not talking about the stun gun itself. I’m talking about all the pocket knives, brass knuckles, guns that they might have had that you didn’t see. You mentioned that they probably didn’t see your gun, but obviously you didn’t see what else they might have had either.

“Blade Balls”, as opposed to beer balls, is what gives a lot people the courage to attack someone else. Train in weapons, and train against weapons if you really want to be able to defend yourself in this day and age. So you say “Crime isn’t that bad yet here”. Don’t be a fool! Katrina was just a hurricane and look what happened to New Orleans. Trends usually get worse my friends, not better when it relates to crime. That means that the next city to implode will do so for a lot less of a reason than a hurricane. I would not be surprised if you start seeing riots in places like Los Angeles again just because gasoline might go to 5 dollars a gallon if Israel attacks Iran. To make this tirade shorter…

Get a concealed weapons license and carry a gun!

You train hard in the martial arts in case bad things happen to you. But it seems that most of you never think beyond that. What about a home invasion? What about the possible breakdown of law and order? Most people never think of these things. 2000 people are still unaccounted for from New Orleans. Do you want to be part of the next 2000 that die in your city when something happens there?

It’s your choice.

PS: If you think crime in America is bad now then you haven’t seen anything yet. Look at places like Venezuela. I bet you have no idea that more people died last year in Venezuela than people did in Iraq. Why didn’t you hear about that on the news? It’s because they don’t want to scare people with the truth.

Grand Theft Auto was one of the most popular video game series of all time. Gangster rap is mostly what you hear on “rock” stations today. Popular movies are movies where the hero is a criminal like “Crank, Pitch Black, and War” It’s Thug Games, Thug Radio, Thug Movies, and even Thug TV. Art imitates reality my friends.

Welcome to Thug America, home of the “Gangsta Rapper, Murderous Thug”.

Did i say, "Carry a gun?" You're damn right I did!

[freeBatjko]

Hot_Wings... As a non-american, I must say that this is the attitude that drives millions of americans to buy a dozen guns for their family home, with which their children grow up and learn how normal it is to own and use one.
That is the attitude of fear that makes an entire country go insane on paranoia, seeing enemies and potential enemies everywhere. That is the reason why so many americans hate and fear everyone else - because they are afraid of them.

"Did i say, "Carry a gun?" You're damn right I did!" That's the kind of stuff that makes your country (and your people) so unpredictable and dangerous.
It is not the criminals or rogue states around you... it is your extreme fear of them.

I agree that weapons training is a good thing to have and practice, and no self-defense system shoudl go without it.
However, that doesn't mean that everyone must run around with their shivering hands clammed around the gun in their pocket.

-free-

[Guest]

As a non-american, I must say that this is the attitude that drives millions of americans to buy a dozen guns for their family home, with which their children grow up and learn how normal it is to own and use one.
That is the attitude of fear that makes an entire country go insane on paranoia, seeing enemies and potential enemies everywhere. That is the reason why so many americans hate and fear everyone else - because they are afraid of them.

"Did i say, "Carry a gun?" You're damn right I did!" That's the kind of stuff that makes your country (and your people) so unpredictable and dangerous.
It is not the criminals or rogue states around you... it is your extreme fear of them.

-free-

As a non-American also - that is an appalling generalisation of a nation of people.

[freeBatjko]

As a non-American also - that is an appalling generalisation of a nation of people.

Well for the sake of shortness I didn't include "SOME" or "MANY OF the americans" where it would have suited.
Obviously this cannot apply to every american. It just happens to apply to a much higher percentage of the population than in most other countries.

[95 Mystic TA]

I chose self defense training because I once was "that guy" and the scenario did happen though the thugs didn't have weapons.

That scenario changed my life forever for the better directly and indirectly. I started carrying a butterfly knife and for awhile I would get pretty nervous walking down the street at night. Two years later I took of World Oyama Karate, off-shoot of Kyoshkin and trained hard and enjoyed training there for 2 years. I trained several times a week until a new reality-based school opened and started training 5-6 days a week there. I became a close friend of the instructor and through his training, my sense of awareness was heightened 10-fold. We trained weapons, mostly blade and stick and we sparred often including multi-person sparring in lighted as well as "lights out."

I no longer train with him unfortunatly and now train as a great mma school but I continue to remember the "street" mentality angle to it and continue to train outside of the gym on my knife and stick skills as well as a few other techniques that aren't allowed in an mma event.

I feel that if I were in a situation similar now (minus the teenage hijinks), I would have no quirks about pulling my blades and defending myself accordingly.

Scenario

I was 14 and a friend's mother picked me, her son and another kid up at a skating rink and took us snatching up the little advertisement signs for things like "vote for Pedro" or "firewood for sale" ect. It was dumb. Understood.

We had gathered a lot and as we were coming up on another sign on a long straight, dark road that I had never been on, they stopped to let me out. I got it and they thought it funny to drive off.

10 minutes of walking and no car, three guys pull over to ask if I need a lift. I recognized the driver faintly; he was a few years older and I had seen him before. I tell them no thanks after small talk, and as I turn to walk away, I hear the sound of a car door open and the words "get him."

I looked back, saw them jump out and hit a lick. I ran so far it seemed, so fast on that cold as night that my lungs were about to explode. I still could see no lights or other cars, house or structures in site. As I felt I could run no longer, my legs started giving out and as I turned slightly for a look over my shoulder, a big guy with a black hood on, dove at me hard, knocking me hard to the ground, and my head smacked the asphault pretty hard.

Once on the ground, he and another guy proceeded to beat the shit out of me. It was dark, the ground was so cold and I was scared. I didn't know what was happening or why, I was just balled up protecting my head as they continued soccer kicking the shit out of my ribs, back and mostly my head.

As a car came, the guys finally jerked my shoes and shirt off and took off in their truck.

[chamberlainJ]

I think it would come to terms as how much you can endure... most the times in a 3 to 1 scenario if it ever occurs. Im sure you will not leave unscathed, I always lived by the saying when in a fight "Untouched and Alive" is always the best means to leave by. My father always told me just grab one and punch him in his fucking face until you cant punch no more. His reasoning was that of a white kid raised in trenton in the 60s. I'd like to spread on more of my terminology. He said that make sure one of those bastards wakes up in the hospital next to you. However I would approach a drag method, they come at you, you hit one and I mean hard then you back up alot then one more comes in you hit him again if he goes down you punch another one eventually I would run in and just start running, punching, kicking kneeing at all attempts. But thatsss just me.

[ttruscott]

I wrote up my thoughts about this some time ago. Here is the url: How to Survive Random Gang Violence

This advice is for non-training non-martial artists against drunk yahoos, not gang members....

Comments and suggestions are certainly welcome, just register.

[Tant01]

Greetings....

I wrote up my thoughts about this some time ago. Here is the url: How to Survive Random Gang Violence

This advice is for non-training non-martial artists against drunk yahoos, not gang members....

Comments and suggestions are certainly welcome, just register.

If I may? My name is Ray and I have no idea who you are, who you've trained with, what your profession is or what you teach outside of a few posts on this forum and an article or two.

So, it is with all due respect that I offer my completely unqualified comments.

First, thanks for sharing. I'm ALL FOR educating potential victims about the nature of violence. It seems fairly clear you care about the safety and well being of others.

I enjoyed the article and there is some good (sound) advise. It would take me far too long to type everything I agree with but I have a REALLY hard time with the curl into a ball (or fetal positions in general) advise.

Survival (to me) means escaping bad situations if you fail to AVOID them. The defensless victim in a ball on the floor is completely at the mercy of the merciless.

The best way (in my opinion) to survive the worse case scenario is not to submit but to dominate.

Before it escalates into a potential boot party while the aggressors are "woofing" you choose to make yourself an easy victim or you ATTACK.

Even the weakest girl can go "psycho" and make everything that fits in her hand a missle. She can kick and scream and bite and gouge and scratch. She can survive by relentless aggression and mindset because as you know well enough (I'm sure) MOST criminals and truants would rather have an easy victim than a fight...

"Press on"

~R

[Garland]

Even the weakest girl can go "psycho" and make everything that fits in her hand a missle. She can kick and scream and bite and gouge and scratch. She can survive by relentless aggression and mindset because as you know well enough (I'm sure) MOST criminals and truants would rather have an easy victim than a fight...

Sounds like you know my mother.