highschool wrestler uses unusual move for escaping single leg attempt

[DickHardman]

I love listening to people who break the law as an everyday hobby, train dangerous techniques while impaired on drugs (probably driving to the gym while impaired as well) talk about how dangerous someone else is behaving.

wait werent you just talking about how you love and respect people who take risks and do dangerous things?? i should be like james dean, or clint eastwook status to you then if thats the case.

[DickHardman]

You'd never make it past the drug test.

I love listening to people who break the law as an everyday hobby, train dangerous techniques while impaired on drugs (probably driving to the gym while impaired as well) talk about how dangerous someone else is behaving.

yeah, you are a right. all those guys taking steroids, human growth hormones, and all kinds of other chemicals would never want to be associated with a marijuana user

[DickHardman]

Dick just makes it so easy!

easy for me. resorting to having to pick on spelling errors and posting false declarations of victory are signs of hitting rock bottom bro.

[DickHardman]

But that's why no one is paying a red cent to watch you fight.

thats ok with me, because i have no desire to fight for money whatsoever.

[DickHardman]

That's all I'm doing too. I was just wondering why you'd criticize that kid and say things like "you dont need to take unnecessary ones for the sake of looking cool, " which are clearly potshots at the kid in the video (not just statements about what you'd do). I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I'm just wondering why you would choose to flame the kid in the video for doing things his way and finding success with it.

all im sayin is that i wouldnt want my back to be folded in half, so i wouldnt ever try that move. you are the one who is blowing things out of perportion.

I mean, it's a fairly large step to go from one kid's unconventional and yet entirely successful move in a high school wrestling tournament to "that could kill him someday."

it could kill him someday mike. he was lucky the kid holding his leg wasnt strong enough to just hold him there, possible snapping his back and neck. like nutragi said earlier, if he were to pull that on a guy who wasnt totally weaksauce that could backfire bigtime.

I thought asking for information and discussing opinions was also allowed here.

thats just your opinion lol...

[DickHardman]

But Dick, you can accomplish certain goals by taking different paths. So what if you'd choose to play it safe? He chose not to. Big deal. Are you saying everyone has to do it your way?

im just stating my own opinion, which i thought was allowed here....

If they did, we'd never have seen the likes of Genki Sudo, Sakuraba, Muhammad Ali (who almost never "played it safe") or any of the superstars of boxing, wrestling, or MMA. I'd submit to you that superstars are made specifically because they do the unorthodox. They take risks and stand out, and they win doing it. Dude, Genki Sudo and Sakuraba basically made their names taking crazy, unorthodox risks, and they are legends of the game.

thats cool. but that doesnt change my opinion that the move in video posted on this thread was a risky one. im sure that kid is now a legend at his school after pulling of that move, that doesnt mean i would ever use it as a grappler.

What has playing it safe gotten you?

good health. a steady job and income. progress in martial arts and weight lifting due to no delays in my martial arts training since i have been able to keep my injuries and downtime to a minimum from training safe with trusted partners who can still push me and make me work hard.

[DickHardman]

He wasn't "training." He was competing. If you can't tell the difference, then you've got no right calling yourself a competitor.

even in competing, there are way better options to stopping the single leg attempt than a backflip lool.......

[DickHardman]

Well, I agree that the position needs to be learned. It's certainly better than being mounted. But, some guys get a false sense of security in their guard. They grapple in friendly competition on a soft mat. That's different from some guy trying to maim you on the asphalt. Point is this: use the guard if your unlucky enoughto get taken down. Then get the hell out of it and back to your feet. Otherwise, you're no better than the highschool wrestler who is playing with fire with his acrobatic feat or feet or whatever.

the guard can be countered just like anything else. but it also has its uses. you gotta learn how to deal with people trying to pick you up/standing up from your guard, there are plenty of sweeps and trips you can do to them when they try to stand up. i also use the guard to push on their hips and make space to get back on my feet.

[DickHardman]

Damn. I can't believe I let this go for so long.

So you called this a cool move when you posted it, but now it's irresponsible and dangerous?



Yeah, so why criticize the kid for accomplishing his goal his way?

its a cool move no doubt. but its also very risky. and all im sayin is that as a grappler myself, its not one that i would do because i also realize the great danger in that move, and that there are safer alternatives to countering a single leg attempt like kani basama, pushing the head, going under the arm to grabbing his head and trying to roll him over etc........ which leads me to believe that despite all these safer alternatives, this guy chose the flashier one to look good in the school gym.

[Shoot]

depends how good your guard is. there are jiu jitsu guys who have guards that can completely control other people and finish them. that guy wasnt doing shit from his guard.

Well, I agree that the position needs to be learned. It's certainly better than being mounted. But, some guys get a false sense of security in their guard. They grapple in friendly competition on a soft mat. That's different from some guy trying to maim you on the asphalt. Point is this: use the guard if your unlucky enoughto get taken down. Then get the hell out of it and back to your feet. Otherwise, you're no better than the highschool wrestler who is playing with fire with his acrobatic feat or feet or whatever.

[DickHardman]

why even bother with combat sports if you're that damned worried about the risk?

because you can train in combat arts/sports without taking ridiculous, and unnecessary risks


you can accomplish certain goals taking different paths as well.

[DickHardman]

whoa! That video is disturbing and very sad. The guard has enjoyed success in sport fighting for one fact alone: the participants are not really trying to hurt each other. It is obvious that in a real fight or combat situation the guard is so damn dangerous. Think about it--you have your enemy in between your legs. Yeah, not a great place to be. Sorry, I know that's off topic a bit.

depends how good your guard is. there are jiu jitsu guys who have guards that can completely control other people and finish them. that guy wasnt doing shit from his guard.

[Shoot]

im going to have to side with douchebaji on this one, cause i could see that kid eventually ending up like this dude .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEnVbnucYtc

.....this is what i like to refer to as "not crackin".......not crackin at all.......well, unless we are talking about the vertebrae in his spine that are now completely toast.....that fools day has been ruined so badly i dont think he will ever even able to get morning wood again in his life. i dont know who has it worse, this guy here or those fools who jumped off the roof through that table....

whoa! That video is disturbing and very sad. The guard has enjoyed success in sport fighting for one fact alone: the participants are not really trying to hurt each other and the environment is controlled with a soft ground. It is obvious that in a real fight or combat situation the guard is so damn dangerous. Think about it--you have your enemy in between your legs. Yeah, not a great place to be. Sorry, I know that's off topic a bit.

[DickHardman]

Dick -

He didn't get injured. He won the match.

with a bad habit that may catch up to him though.

Personally, I admire a competitor who's willing to risk himself not to lose. I completely understand it and identify with it, because I've always been one of those guys who just flat refused to fall down in a boxing ring.

martial arts requires taking risks, but you dont need to take unnecessary ones for the sake of looking cool. being tenacious and not giving up are not the same thing as taking unnecessary risks that can result in permanent injury and death.

Arguably, standing up and taking punches instead of falling down or taking a knee is potentially lethal as well, but if we were really and truly trying to play it safe, why get on the mat or in the ring in the first place.

not everyone trains because they feel a need to have their hand raised in front of everyone by a referee in order to feel good about themselves.

Nope. Sorry. That kid made the most of a bad situation and came up aces. All your criticism means - given the reasons you've listed (oh no! This shit is dangerous?!) - is that the high school kid in that video is a tougher competitor with more balls than you.

i grapple a lot, with many experienced and some well known grapplers. the last thing i would want to do is risk injury to my neck and spine like that. as jubaji said, there are better/safer ways to defeat a single leg attempt.


and since you respect people who are willing to risk their necks and backs to entertain others, heres that one video again mike, you must think these guys are some of the most badass humans alive by your own admission.....

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGuw09cHHz4[/YOUTUBE]

[DickHardman]

It's no different at all! It was a one time move that he neither trains nor teaches. It came out under pressure, it worked, end of fight! Same with the high school kid. Rickson has a much higher degree of skill, so it was smoother, but the concept is the same.

no the concept was not the same. people who train in judo and wrestling, who are constantly getting thrown, learn how to ride throws after a while. that doesnt mean they can ride every single one, but it is not a rare occurrence. im not even good at throws and i have been able to ride a fair share of them. the guy in the first video was not riding a throw, he performed a back flip.