Opinions on most destructive submission grappling techniques

[Heroic Wolf]

I was wondering what everybody thought was the most destructive type of submission grappling technique. Various sources, people I know, and personal experience seem to agree that as far as submitting someone goes, pressure points, tendon/muscle destructions (bicep slicer, calf crusher, etc), joint locks/breaks, and chokes seem the worst. Any ideas?

[Tant01]

The MOST destructive? Hmmm A neck crank can kill someone in fairly short order...

A knee bar can cripple like any other joint lock if you INTEND to DESTROY it.

I often say the difference between "submission" and DESTRUCTION is a few pounds of torque (OR INTENT)

I've had good results with Kanibasami...

[Britt]

Seems like the most destructive would have to be neck cranks and strangles/chokes. A heel hook or knee bar can maim you for life, but a guillotine can crush your trachea and kill you, and an RNC from a sufficiently motivated attacker can clamp off your carotid and also kill you. Can't get much more destructive than that.

[jasculs]

Neck cranks and muscle slicers are very dangerous....The main leg lock that is dangerous is a heel hook.

All subs are dangerous but these listed above can have a fine line between hurting you or not hurting you.

[Tant01]

There was a video clip floating around of a poorly executed spine lock a while ago. Broke the poor guy's back!

In the interest of accuracy a "crank" applies pressure to the vertibra and can cause dislocation, a choke or strangle hold closes off the trachea or blood flow (or both) by constriction.

[Tant01]

Bas on cranking...

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[Britt]

There was a video clip floating around of a poorly executed spine lock a while ago. Broke the poor guy's back!

In the interest of accuracy a "crank" applies pressure to the vertibra and can cause dislocation, a choke or strangle hold closes off the trachea or blood flow (or both) by constriction.

Yep. I've got a pinched nerve in my neck from a tad-too-enthusiastic neck crank back in April, and it's still making my shoulder and left arm all tingly. The missus suggested I get a massage this weekend and see if it will loosen up.

[treelizard]

Someone got me in a spine lock today and it wasn't quite that bad... I just tapped quickly.

Heel hooks, neck cranks, knee bars. In that order probably.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Kneebars are scary when you get caught in a good one. Not a very pleasant feeling at all to feel your entire leg straightened out like that.

[Marksmarkou]

Well a neck crank done properly is probably the most destructive. But a blood choke left on for 20 seconds or so can kill someone. Joint locks "destruct" joints so they can also be seen as destrcutive. the thing is you still live with joint damadge so they are not as bad as a blood choke or neck crank

[Adept]

Neck crank or choke hold.

Ironic thing about applying a choke is that you won't feel the 'pain' but when left on, is more fatal than a joint destruction.

[Tant01]

Really?

Neck crank or choke hold.

Ironic thing about applying a choke is that you won't feel the 'pain' but when left on, is more fatal than a joint destruction.

In all honesty... that depends on who(m?) is applying the choke.

Some guys are gentle, that's true! You may not feel "much" pain before you're unconscious. However, STRANGLE holds can be MOST painful and often induce PANICK.

There are various methods of combining tracheal and carotid strangles with a spine lock! Certain positions enhance the efficiency of these combined techniques .

For instance... (sorry to rant) Your BJJ/GJJ "guard" (closed) is itself a strangulation method (trunk squeezing) from judo

If you take a reverse naked choke you apply pressure to his throat and neck discs by isolating his trunk with your legs, you can also lean rearward to torque both the front of his neck by compression and constriction. At the same time you are cranking his discs with this rearward force!

Guillotine? GYAKU-HISHIGI(?)



Judo students are closely supervised and usually START learning these (**dislocations**) at BROWN belt level.

Can we say "Potentially DEADLY"?

Word for JUDOINFO dot com!
Judo Techniques: Judo Info Site

[treelizard]

Oh yeah, face cranks kind of suck too... or face locks or whatever they're called.

[Adept]

Some guys are gentle, that's true! You may not feel "much" pain before you're unconscious. However, STRANGLE holds can be MOST painful and often induce PANICK.

Right...okay.

I still prefer to go through a strangulation 'pain' than a joint lock pain.

Maybe it's an opinion, who knows.

My neighbor just finished watching Batman Begins and is in sheer amazement. It came out in 2005 and it is now 2008. That newb.

[treelizard]

Neck crank or choke hold.

One of my buddies had pain on the side of his neck for about a year due to neck cranks.