Bruce Lee vs Grapplers of today, such as Ken Shamrock

[Tuff]

Many people there feel Lee is this god like being who could take anyone, including some of the best grapplers.

I know LeBell defeated him on the ground, but I do not know the nature of how the fight took place.

I'm curious as to how people view Lee compared to today's grapplers. Sure he was a big name, and one of the first, but in a rea llife situation, does anyoen see him just taking people down in one punch all the time like a lot of people think he would?

Lee vs Shamrock was recently debated at this other board I know of. A lot of people feel Lee would win in 3 punches under 20 seconds. mostly a lot of saps.

Anyoen else see it like that??

[TracyKarate]

I am glad someone brought this up. Let me tell you something. It is VERY possible to defeat an opponent with one punch. Albeit it must be a powerful stike to a particular vital target on the body. I don't believe there are many fighters in the Ultimate Fights who are capable of this, but Bruce Lee and Ed Parker are two martial artists who could very easily pull this off.

[LEGION]

The only fights i have ever seen decided by one strike were decided by the opening cheap shot. All other fights i've seen decided by striking were finished with a combination. One shot knockouts against trained opponents happen so rarely that they might as well not exist.

[JKDFIGHTER]

Tuff,

"I know LeBell defeated him on the ground, but I do not know the nature of how the fight took place. "

Never happened. You need to do some REAL research and study. Talk to some people that were actually around in the days of Bruce instead of getting your info off of the net. Gee, about at least going to Gene's website before running your mouth. Besides, it might actually teach you what Bruce was about and you wouldn't waste your time with silly threads like this.

Legion,

Did you happen to see the last Lewis fight. No combo, one fake, one punch, knockout. Just one of many examples. Not to mention that Prince Naseem's knockouts are almost all one-punchers. There is a term in boxing called "knockout artist". There IS a reason.

[Aloha From Hell]

Originally posted by TracyKarate
I am glad someone brought this up. Let me tell you something. It is VERY possible to defeat an opponent with one punch. Albeit it must be a powerful stike to a particular vital target on the body. I don't believe there are many fighters in the Ultimate Fights who are capable of this, but Bruce Lee and Ed Parker are two martial artists who could very easily pull this off.

Yeah right. Dim Mak death touch is true too.

[Dio]

Actually Bruce did spar Gene Le Bell. In Bruce's own words : "It opened my eyes". From then on Bruce put grappling in his training. Now it was a friendly match but Gene did beat him in wrestling.

People become disallusioned about the fighting abilities of their martial arts heros. Bruce was a good fighter, but he wasn't that good. He never fought a professional level fighter. The only fights Bruce Lee ever fought was up against ordinary everyday people when he was growing up and Jack Wong Man. Jack Wong Man wouldn't last 2 minutes against a pro NHB fighter. Neither would Bruce Lee. Again, bruce was a really good fighter, but he wasn't on the level of today's pro NHB fighters. If Frank Shamrock would get inside his time machine and go back and fight Bruce i have a feeling that Frank would dump Bruce. Again, this is not meant to disrespect Bruce as he was a good fighter.

Bruce vs Frank Shammy? Frank Shamrock schooled Cung Le who is one of the best strikers in the world. It was just friendly training but Cung Le got dumped about 70 times. I don't think bruce could take Cung Le let alone Frank Shamrock.

And once again i'm not saying Bruce can't fight. I think Bruce was an above average fighter but nothing spectacular like everyone makes out.

[Tuff]

Originally posted by JKDFIGHTER
Tuff,

"I know LeBell defeated him on the ground, but I do not know the nature of how the fight took place. "

Never happened. You need to do some REAL research and study. Talk to some people that were actually around in the days of Bruce instead of getting your info off of the net. Gee, about at least going to Gene's website before running your mouth. Besides, it might actually teach you what Bruce was about and you wouldn't waste your time with silly threads like this.
.

Read 2 post down, more people talking about it.

If it never happened, I've heard it mentioned up here many times. Why don't you enlighten us all then to what happened.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Why dont you try Gene Lebell's website?

[Ryu (non-working password]

Why do people naturally think that working with someone, and trading info in martial arts, sparring, etc means that is was a big ole challenge match with much hatred brewing in their systems and the other beat the other to a little pulp....etc etc...

Give me a break guys. People aren't always challenging each other to fight. Bruce and Gene worked together on techniques and Bruce considered his judo to be the best in the world. I'm sure if Bruce knew little grappling back then I could beat him in wrestling too. That's not to say he couldn't take my eyes out with a finger jab easily. Not everything is challenge matches. People like to learn.

Ryu

[Rippedfat]

I think that in todays world of hybrid martial arts and exceptional athletes, Bruce LEE would have his ass handed to him on a platter! Very powerful and explosive for his size and granted if he ever got that "one" punch in, his opponent would probably be toast. Chances of that happening are slim. So to judge him on the acid test of "if he ever connected" is a bit far fetched. Much like the GRACIE'S, LEE came along at the right time with something new and fresh and much like the GRACIE'S he was and by some still viewed as unbeatable. We've all seen how unbeatable the GRACIE'S have been. (And by the way it was the Gracie's who kept yapping their flaps about how unbeatable they were, and every time they've been handed a defeat it's excuse time. I wonder how many of the opponents they beat had similar excuses for losing to them, But I'm getting off track) . LEE was a formidable athlete, but he was only 145 lbs with 2% body fat, (I have the other 98%), and all things being equal size does matter! He dabbled in grappling and by his own diarey and drawings, ("The Tao Of Jeet-Kune-Do"), he expended very little time to this aspect of fighting. That's it that's all. I now wait for the onslaught to come from both the GRACIE and LEE fans. "Lets get it ON"

[Alan]

Joe Lewis is very realistic about Bruce's chances against today's fighters but also said Bruce was the fastest man who ever stood in front of him. Lewis' views on the Gracies aren't too hot either.

As for Bruce and other grapplers, Bruce also worked with Hayward Nishioka as well as gene lebell, Nishioka always speaks very highly of Bruce.

I think Lee admitted that he would stand no chance against a good judo man like Nishioka in his game. So Bruce always knew he could be beaten should the guy close him down. But because of the respect that people like Gene and Nishioka we can conlude that Bruce was not the dripping wet fighter that some people claim and could control the fight to a reasonable extent.

Not entirely sure what Nishioka says about today's fighters but apparently he went with Rickson Gracie once upon a time. This was taken from a rickson gracie page:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~thomas4/Rickson/sport.htm

"In 1988 members of the Gracie family enter Hayward Nishioka's (an AAU national judo champion, US judo champion in '66, '67, '71) southern California judo school for some friendly grappling. Rickson is matched up with a judoka who earlier had all kinds of problems with Royce and Royler. They start standing up. They grab each others gis and quickly Rickson takes him down into the open guard. Rickson reverses the guy with a neat little sweep and ends up in side control with the judoka on his back and his arms all tied up. The match is then stopped and stood back up. They start again and Rickson once more drops down and reverses, this time mounted. The guy taps [from an arm lock of some sort, but it is hard to tell]. Rickson jumps back up and gets ready for another clinch. The angry judoka stops and says "ok ok, that's it, that's enough," and orders Rickson to the side lines. Rickson tries talking to him and the judo guy says something like "I already told you 6 times, I don't want this to turn into something uncontrollable." The angry judoka then tells them to just go home. Sometime during the session, Hayward Nishioka tells Rickson he needs work on a few things (his standup) but he is very good and his skill is very close to the guy from the Brazilian national team at his weight. As far as his going with Nishioka, Rickson was thrown a few times but he also clearly threw him twice and immediately mounted."

[Mr. Miyagi]

I hate these unfair comparisons of athletes from the 60's vs today's athletes. You think basketball players from the 60's would stand a chance against the likes of Kobe,MJ, and Shaq? People were smaller, weaker, slower back then. If Bruce were around today he would have added the new developments to his arsenal. He would also be an old man now. With modern training Bruce would be a smaller version of someone like Mach Sakurai, which everyone would have to admit is quite elite.

[JKDFIGHTER]

Sifu Dan Inosanto, as well as others, has said many times that Bruce had gone with the BEST of his day and they all left red faced. Someone mentioned Bruce not going with professional fighters; what professional fighters? Boxers were the only "professional" fighters. Careful, you're showing your age. There was no such thing as kickboxing in America back then. They didn't even have sparring gear, they had to invent their own. Jhoon Rhee, as a result of knowing Bruce, made the first actual sparring gear. Joe Lewis, as a result of knowing Bruce, started the first kickboxing organization.

Mr. Miyagi made very good points about comparing past and present people. Very true. You can't compare out of different time periods. What you can do is see that Bruce was probably the most dedicated and fanatical individual that was ever obsessed with the martial arts. Bruce would take advantage of every modern day training method available to be the very best that he could. He would have researched and found a way to combine and lean down the training to the most efficient and effective methods he could. Think Bruce would like the competitions of today? Probably a lot more than point tournaments. However, this guy was pissed when a fight of his went over TWO minutes. You think he would be impressed with these little games lasting 15-30 minutes? If young Bruce were brought into modern day in his prime, rest assured that he would be a MAJOR force to reckon with.

If you want to compare something, compare the drive of different people and how they can inspire you. In the end, it doesn't matter what you think others can do. What truly matters is, WHAT CAN YOU DO?

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

I have to admit I was not too thrilled with this thread in the begining because I thought it was played out. But the responses here are the most articulate and accurate that I have ever read on any of the Bruce Lee threads from the past and the UG.

[Zeke]

This question surfaces occassionally. Are there any videos of actual Bruce Lee fights? I don't believe there are any but I may be wrong. If the only fights we have seen are the ones in his movies, and we believe those to be accurate, Lee could easily beat Shamrock. After all Lee could jump about 50 feet into the air when chased by bad guys. He could knock out 25-30 men with no problem. Come on guys, Lee weighed about 120 pounds, Frank Shamrock would be arrested for murder if he fought a guy like Lee. Lee was primarily an actor. At his weight he could hit Shamrock and never have an affect on him. I can't think of anybody in NHB that Lee could beat.