Bruce Lee vs Grapplers of today, such as Ken Shamrock

[True Technique]

"Come on now, Ryu. Where am I going to go to? Of course I'm still here, fag. I've been forum impotent lately thanks to the recent Bjj losses. And no one was around to hug me when I cried....hold me."

---The Master---

[Twisted up]

I once asked Joe Lewis what he thought about Bruce Lee and he said (I'm paraphrasing):

"Bruce Lee was a genius and a movie star. He was a good fighter but he was HUMAN, like the rest of us."

I believe Lee was good, and with the concepts of JKD that he was aware of, would've been an animal to deal with in a self-defense situation.

In a sportive event, I have another opinion. He was good for his time, but in this day and age, he'd be fighting people who now train (whether they realize it or not) by his concepts. He'd be facing people who trained just like he did. (I'm talking NHB here folks)

In that regard, I doubt that Lee today would've been able to stand up to the elite heavy weight fighters of today. They'd just be too much for him.

Even in the lighter weight catagories, people like Militich, Saku, Sliva, etc. would be a tough match for Lee. You just have to realize that time marches on.

Football players of today are MUCH better than the football players of the late 60's and early 70's. The same is true of fighting.

People like to make Lee into something larger than life. He was a man. Just like Rickson---he could be beat! Anyone can.


John

[Ryu (non-working password]

There there, True Technique, I'm here for you, buddy.
BJJ will win again, I promise.

(As soon as they learn something other than BJJ LOL)

Ryu

[bbbb]

I wonder...

if any of today's professional NHB fighter's would fight a man like bruce lee outside the ring with NO RULZ...ie would Vitor Belfort or whoever PICK ON BRUCE LEE in a bar...(No Glassing allowed!!)?

What about with GLASSING ALLOWED?

??

[pstevens]

This thread is immature in its approach, but I'll offer my two cents.

First, if you're speculating whether Bruce Lee in the 70's taken out of his context and timeline could take a NHB fighter today, then ofcourse the fighter of today would have a better chance. It's called "modernization." A 1970's army cannot defeat the armies of today because of advances.

Now, if Bruce Lee were alive today and in prime condition, training with the same technology, advances in MMA, he would be every bit as potent as today's fighters, if not more. Remember, the guy was a genius in his own time.

Regarding Bruce Lee's skill level. He never fought Gene Labelle. Instead, they trained together, which undoubtedly involved rolling sessions, drills, etc... Gene has publicly said that Bruce Lee was the best of his time. Although he wasn't the greatest grappler, it's being proven today that strikers with grapping fundamentals dominate NHB. Perhaps Bruce Lee was aware of this.

That said... Most things said or written about Bruce Lee today are inaccurate, embellished or contorted to make money. You can't take anything away from the legacy left by Bruce Lee - He's the reason people became interested in martial arts (I know it did). I don't care if people say "Bruce Lee this," or "Bruce Lee that," Bruce didn't say any of it. He preached conditioning, realistic fighting principles and being free from bias. Those are the things that stand out for me.

In fact, I'm beginning to see the "organized despair" in BJJ. Now, that MMA people have discovered to how to counter it, BJJ is useless without training in other systems. A system will always be lacking, because it is confined by it's own delivery system.

[bbbb]

This thread is immature in its approach, but I'll offer my two cents.

First, if you're speculating whether Bruce Lee in the 70's taken out of his context and timeline could take a NHB fighter today, then ofcourse the fighter of today would have a better chance. It's called "modernization." A 1970's army cannot defeat the armies of today because of advances.

Now, if Bruce Lee were alive today and in prime condition, training with the same technology, advances in MMA, he would be every bit as potent as today's fighters, if not more. Remember, the guy was a genius in his own time.

Regarding Bruce Lee's skill level. He never fought Gene Labelle. Instead, they trained together, which undoubtedly involved rolling sessions, drills, etc... Gene has publicly said that Bruce Lee was the best of his time. Although he wasn't the greatest grappler, it's being proven today that strikers with grapping fundamentals dominate NHB. Perhaps Bruce Lee was aware of this.

That said... Most things said or written about Bruce Lee today are inaccurate, embellished or contorted to make money. You can't take anything away from the legacy left by Bruce Lee - He's the reason people became interested in martial arts (I know it did). I don't care if people say "Bruce Lee this," or "Bruce Lee that," Bruce didn't say any of it. He preached conditioning, realistic fighting principles and being free from bias. Those are the things that stand out for me.

In fact, I'm beginning to see the "organized despair" in BJJ. Now, that MMA people have discovered to how to counter it, BJJ is useless without training in other systems. A system will always be lacking, because it is confined by it's own delivery system.

_but would any of 'em step outside with him?!

[pstevens]

_but would any of 'em step outside with him?!

Most MMA fighters consider themselves professionals, and would probably not engage in a street fight, especially with someone who specializes in street conditions like a Bruce Lee. Ask any MMA fighter and he'll tell you, he'd rather fight a 300 lb guy in the ring than a street fighter in an alley.

[bdipab]

"Let me tell you how it is folks--JKD is waste of time. Why is thread being used to debate such an obvious topic? Brule Lee would literally DIE again fighting today's round of fighters--like Shaka Zulu the Legend Vs. Erwin Rommel. Come on, is that really a match worth lighting? In my mind, calling in Shamrock to fight weak Bruce Lee is no different than ordering an atom bomb to exterminate a few hundred sheep believed to have come in contact with the mad cow disease. Can you say overkill? And what fool convinced you JKDers that Lee had a lot of strength and power? Or technique?"

---The Master---

I'll respond to this post, because this seems representative of a majority of responses. Frank Shamrock isn't undefeatable and to say BL couldn't beat him, that it is such a large mismatch shows you've never fought a day in your life. Bruce Lee didn't fight ordinary people - who the **** is ordinary. There are guys who haven't taken a day of professional training who could beat the snot out of some of these so-called professional MMA fighters - even on their worst day . MMA matches aren't even a good representation of real fights - which is all BL ever trained for. What kind of moron would try to take someone down to the ground on concrete. BL had a lot of power (while it's true that size adds to power - its also true that it isn't the only factor in having power). Anyone that has seen BL demonstrations wouldn't contest either his speed, strength or his power. I'm not saying who would win, I think the comparison is stupid as are the people who are so closed minded to just randomly decide who would fight not having known the skills of both fighters to any true degree (as someone has said there are no videos of BL fighting). Maybe Shamrock could take him to the ground and own him or maybe Bruce will eye jab (like a lot of modern fighters BL did advocate going for leg strikes first and with his speed I'm sure he would have caught Shamrock with a couple) or take his knee out. Could Tyson beat Ali, could (insert favorite modern "professional" fighter's name here) beat Bruce Lee? All these types of questions really reflect is that deep down there is a curiosity about the abilities of modern fighters against legendary figures, but one shouldn't think that all of a sudden someone like BL would be a push over. Even now there isn't a single person who can say they have made as many inovations to the martial arts as BL or who is as naturally gifted as Bruce Lee was.

By the way BJJ is the most overhyped piece of crap martial art I've seen come about in a long time - it's so impractical it's scary. I've yet to see it's effectiveness in real world situations - on concrete with broken bottles, sidewalks with hydrants and steps, etc. Try to land safely with someone in your guard in those settings. Enjoy it for sport and learn a little on the off chance that you end up on the ground (don't believe bogus Gracie statistics - realize that much money is involved to make so many people tell such bold faced lies).

[Tant01]

This thread is immature in its approach, but I'll offer my two cents.

....
....Regarding Bruce Lee's skill level. He never fought Gene Labelle. Instead, they trained together, which undoubtedly involved rolling sessions, drills, etc... Gene has publicly said that Bruce Lee was the best of his time.
........

We realize this thread is almost four years old, right?


Sheesh.... Bruce had his ass handed to him by Gene. It happened while they were working together on the Green Hornet series. Gene twice asked BL to not hit so hard with the contact during rehersal. The third time Gene took him down and put some hurt on the star. Bruce being the artist that he WAS then started training Judo waza with Gene. I've heard the story and know of others that also know the story as told by Gene L.

Old news...

[Yu Law]

This question surfaces occassionally. Are there any videos of actual Bruce Lee fights? I don't believe there are any but I may be wrong. If the only fights we have seen are the ones in his movies, and we believe those to be accurate, Lee could easily beat Shamrock. After all Lee could jump about 50 feet into the air when chased by bad guys. He could knock out 25-30 men with no problem. Come on guys, Lee weighed about 120 pounds, Frank Shamrock would be arrested for murder if he fought a guy like Lee. Lee was primarily an actor. At his weight he could hit Shamrock and never have an affect on him. I can't think of anybody in NHB that Lee could beat.

u clearly under estimate the value of a martial art. In most martial arts it doesn't matter what size u are. Speed is the factor, with speed comes power and strength.

Frank DUx was never the strongest or biggest guy but his kicking record (don't know if its been broken) was 75 miles per hour. His fastest knockout was .12 sec.

i've also beaten guys twice my size who did karate and such. For u to say that Bruce Lee would be murdered by Shamrock b/c of his size is fucking ignorant.

And since most pple in this forum train in some sort of martial art, u either don't understand yours or u just a big fucker whose seen smaller guys get beaten.

[Yu Law]

damn this thread is 4 yrs old. i prob. posted to a ghost.

lol, make new threads instead of reviving old ones.

[fenwick99]

seriously

Bruce Lee couldn't have beaten "anyone" in NHB? Bruce Lee couldn't have beaten Cal Worsham, Joe Son, Fred Ettish, or that shotokan guy that Royce beat in UFC2?
The issue is not who Bruce could have beaten-- the issue is his contributions to the art of fighting. Read Strong's posts on Stickgrappler.

[Rank7]

actually, i would bet Bruce would be a great grappler for up close combat he was an expert in wing chung which im sure are good for pre take downs or what not. i too can imagine bruce pullling off some wild quick stunts in grappling.

[zhorner]

shamrock, frank or ken would kill bruce lee.

you guys are killing me.

[georgie]

wow

i gotta add my 2 cents here! ok ive met ken shamrock in person . very nice professional guy but the craziest eyes ive ever seen on a man. nothin behind them . he is a pure fighting animal. but i also know that most of these NHB fighters are also fighting animals as well . highly conditioned athletes who specialize in taking you out. Mr. Bruce Lee was probably the most influential martial artist in modern history. we've all seen the footage of ed parkers karate tournament where lee amazed the crowd with demonstations of his speed and power. ok bruce lee was an expert striker. there is no doubt he is faster than any martial artist alive today. if you dont believe me read up on all the factual quotes made by joe lewis, chuck norris, ed parker, dan inosanto etc. . i mean they had to slow the footage down in his movies because he was that fast. now if bruce were to put as much effort in to grappling as he did to striking there is no question he would hurt shamrock but...only in streetfighting. in a NHB arena he would lose. lee was gifted with eye gouges and the real dirty aspects of street fighting. shamrock is not . he trains according to rules set forth according to NHB competitons. you can bet shamrock aint used to a good eye gouge . lee was said to have been able to put his fingers through a pop can(at the time much harder than the cans today). he was faster than shamrock for sure but only in the street. there is a reason why he is still regarded as the best martial artist over 30 years after he died. Lee was a talented dirty street fighter, shamrock is a talented arena fighter. 2 different worlds! just my 2 cents.