the right to knowledge

[kiddbjj]

hey

was thinking about this the other day and wanted to canvas some opinions here in the forums....

From what I understand, traditionally, students needed to prove themselves worthy of studying a particular ma in various ways before they would be accepted as students. Whether it was the old Shaolin thing of waiting outside the temple door for days or more recent things like cleaning the dojo and preparing meals for the more senior students (common in Sumo stables).

Then, even upon acceptance as a student the teacher would put the new face to the test by making them perform heaps of reps of only a few techniques or making them endure lots of physical fitness training for months, essentially testing their commitment to the style and trying to gauge their character. Then, if the teacher was satisfied that the new person would be a good addition for the school they may be accepted into the real teaching.

I know that this kind of weeding out was common during periods of China's recent history, mostly because if a student was caught doing the wrong thing it would reflect poorly on the teacher and in some cases the teacher could be held liable. Even when I did Kung fu about 10 years ago, I had to go through a kind of initiation for about 2 years of only learning forms and fitness until they got to know me and only then did they start teaching the sanda style techniques that anybody can now download on youtube.

I guess my point is, nowdays, the stuff that is being taught at most MMA gyms is pretty dangerous stuff when taught to the wrong kind of person. Yet there is no way of assessing if the student is the right kind of person to learn it. People that are bullies, petty thugs or even criminals can walk in from day one, pay their fee and learn effective techniques. Imagine the devastation a person inclined to rape or sexual assault might be able to inflict on a victim after only a few months of learning positional control, restraints and chokes from a typical MMA or BJJ class.

But is anybody monitoring who is learning this stuff? Does somebody need to?

[pstevens]

Well, that's a pretty tough call for a local MMA gym that's starting out; but it's probably not a bad idea if they were very serious about competing in the UFC. I know camps like Militech's weed out the weak ones, as do other pro groups. But I'm not sure if they do it based on character alone.

The problems for local MMA clubs are:

1. Money. Getting somebody to join is tough enough and now you have to turn somebody away? That's a tough decision to make.

2. The law. You might get away with turning people away, but you'd better have a legitimate reason because there are statutes that protect people from discrimination and they could use that against you. It might not happen all the time, but there's always the possibility.

3. Misjudgement. Judging someone by their initial enthusiasm, work ethic or even character can be misleading. Some start out as saints, then turn sour. Others are crooked and become model citizens. I've witnessed both, so you never can tell.

But I see what you mean... MMA can empower a bully to do bad things. If anything, it gives "wannabes" something to brag about. Case in point, a friend who trains MMA and I were shooting hoops with a bunch of people. There was a muscle head who was talking up a storm about how he did MMA. When he played, he was very rough; elbowing people down in the paint. Later he pushed my friend very hard - that was a mistake. My friend didn't even bother to talk, he went for the double-leg leg right away and got side control and pretended like he was going to ground n pount the guy. The guy was cared sh#tless. My friend stands up and says, "MMA tough guy, huh?"

[JadeDragon]

2. The law. You might get away with turning people away, but you'd better have a legitimate reason because there are statutes that protect people from discrimination and they could use that against you. It might not happen all the time, but there's always the possibility.

If I own a m.a. school don't I have the right to turn away a student if I want? After all it's my school. I've heard of private elementary schools and private high schools turning students away (especially at private Catholic or Christian schools). A school owner can always make the price to high for the individual to afford or make the class to hard for him. Can't he? He doesn't know how much the teacher/owner charges per month.

[kiddbjj]

i agree that there are less obvious ways to get rid of a bad egg than telling them they're not welcome, thus avoiding the whole discrimination thing...

for example, setting them drills that are difficult and then basically just leaving them there to do that all session. Few will stick with it.

But seriously, who takes responsibility for teaching people how to hurt and possibly kill other people. Should things like chokes be taught straight away or should they be held off for a few months at least until the teacher gets to know the student.

I have heard that in some BJJ clubs the new people are only allowed to train positional stuff for the first 6-12 months; and of course some kids classes mit the subs altogether until the kids get older.

[JadeDragon]

i agree that there are less obvious ways to get rid of a bad egg than telling them they're not welcome, thus avoiding the whole discrimination thing...

for example, setting them drills that are difficult and then basically just leaving them there to do that all session. Few will stick with it.But seriously, who takes responsibility for teaching people how to hurt and possibly kill other people. Should things like chokes be taught straight away or should they be held off for a few months at least until the teacher gets to know the student.

You can always have them stand in ma bu (horse stance) and have them do reverse punches the whole class time. Or roundhouse kicks on the heavy bag during the whole class.