America's Foundation

[hounddog]

Qfxd wrote:
"First of all Darwin's theory was always that, just a theory. Secondly the point is that science has come to a point where the theory has more holes in it then when it was first stated. Chemical, biological and archeological evidence rather than supporting his theory have eaten away at it. That is not a lie but a fact. "

--Yes, its much more believeable that god created man and that the immaculate conception really happened. It's also really believable that Jesus was resurrected and I really love the part about walking on water. Yes, no holes there.

Qfxd wrote:
"Hound dog if you want to make criticisms then at least read a little first. It takes no inteligence or preperation to sit back and make off the cuff critiques. That's why it's the favorite activity of undisciplined children and unaccomplished men. "

I'm not an undisciplined child nor an unaccomplished man so nice try. I don't need to read the Koran, Bible or Book of Mormon to believe what I believe or to believe that they are all fiction. if someone tells me that the virgin mary gave birth without having sex, I look to science and science tells me this is impossible. Much like rising from the dead and walking on water. All impossible. Could this be a tall tale that was grasped onto by a desperate many who were seeking answers in a desperate time? Often, when there are no answers, stories are made up and over time desperate individuals latch onto these stories as truth.

Qfxd wrote:
For those of you who keep stating the mantra that belief in God is the reason for war. Know this, there has been 10 x more blood shed by countries whose belief system is that there is no God. Mao, Stalin and Mussolini all put into practice exactly what you're espousing. So instead of attacking Christianity let me here your defense for humanism in action. Back up your claim with actual historic evidence that your philosophy would work."

I don't believe belief in god is the reason for war. I do think that there are wars started because of conflicting beliefs and morals based on religion.
-hD

[Masala]

qfkx wrote:

"I didn't become a Christian until I was an adult. I've been an atheist then a new ager, then finally a Christian."

So in other words, first you were sure there is no God. Then you were possitive that there are mystical forces in the universe, but not really a God per say, or whatever new age philosophy you were into. Now, you are absolutely certain that that "christianity" is the final truth (whatever that means, since no two christians can seem to agree).

I am amazed by peoples ability to move from one belief system to another, time and time again, yet always remain convinced that their current belief system is the real truth.

[Qkfx]

ayyy

Masala I was never absolutely convinced with atheism or new age, only Christianity. To search for the truth of a situation is a process and there is nothing wrong with that. The first argument you hear always sounds great until you hear the rebuttal. The process of listening to all sides and then making a decision is simply practical.
Hound Dog the fact that you don't need to read about the subject being debated is a little confusing, I guess your omnipotent. The point is that God performed all the miracles you mentioned to testify beyond debate that he is whoe he claimed to be. If he had only stuck with debate, which he also did, people would be clamoring for a supernatural evidence.
Atomic the point I made about Darwin's holes are factual. The fact that you think humanism's pseudointellectual arguments are fact evidences nothing but your bias. You claim to follow science but you apparently do not know what the highest of scientific minds are saying about evolution at this point. You also seem to be unaware of the faith of scienes fouding fathers.

[Szczepankiewicz]

QKFX

Prove to me that there is a God!

[likuid]

when in doubt, make a post about religion, it will definitely get attention...

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yes, the best way to start a scrap is to bring up Politics, Religion, or both!


But it is a relevent topic for this forum. Organized Martial Arts has roots in religious institutions. Don't you think?

[Atomic]

Atomic the point I made about Darwin's holes are factual. The fact that you think humanism's pseudointellectual arguments are fact evidences nothing but your bias. You claim to follow science but you apparently do not know what the highest of scientific minds are saying about evolution at this point. You also seem to be unaware of the faith of scienes fouding fathers.

As I said before, prove it. I'd like to see who your "highest scientific minds" are. I can guarantee I've talked to more "high scientific minds" than you have, as well as attended many lectures from these people. And I guarantee my knowledge of evolution and science more than tops your pseudo-intellectual arguments that you do not back.

I challenge you to name the people that think evolution is not correct. For every crackpot you name, I'll name at least 2 that do...most likely, 3, 4, or 5. Oh, and these are people that hold the highest credibility in their fields of research published in the greatest scientific journals (peer reviewed and referreed, mind you).

Next, I'd like to see their articles showing evolution is not true. My only stipulation is that these are peer-reviewed and/or referreed (meaning scientists in this field, not fellow crackpots).

As for faith of "founding fathers," I can name quite a few that were misguided and many that were not.

Example: Darwin was devoutly religious, but we are talking about a man that had serious issues, including depression and guilt, that fogged his thoughts. Hell, the guy married his first cousin, which caused him a lot of mental anguish, combined with the fact that his children were actually quite sickly, which he thought was a form of punishment from god for his inbreeding. (This thought was actually misguided.)

And, one more little fact, do you realize that before the Origin of the Species was presented, it was common for people to marry first cousins, etc?

Before you spout off what you "supposedly" know about science, take some real courses in science (and not just college courses at the 100 or 200 level, try moving up to the good courses).

Lastly, try and give some solid evidence to support your claims, it makes this crap more believeable.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yeah, all you knuckleheads who beleive in something other than science, we are ten times smarter than all of you put together!


And if I'm not as smart as you, I know 50 people who are!

So I pose the same question, in a different light:

Prove to me that there is not a God?

[Oldskulbus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Prove to me that there is not a God? [/QUOTE


You can't prove that there is or isn't a god. If a higher being does exist then it's thought process and ideas are way beyond anything that we can possibly imagine. But if a god doesn't exist then who cares?

Since you can't prove that there is or isn't a higher power then all you are left with is proving that "views" of this higher power are false. This is why it’s easy to take a part a religion and say that it isn't true. Most religions are based off of some historical event that is taken to be true. However, most of these are easily proved false by a mind that doesn't believe in hypocrisy or propaganda.

So here are my views on Religion and god:

Religion: Full of lies and easily perceived falsehoods. People need religions because they want the safety of knowing that they have protection and reward (heaven) for not being strong, powerful, and ruthless.

God: Either doesn’t exist or has an agenda that no mere mortal can understand. So why bother caring?

[Szczepankiewicz]

Why indeed?

[likuid]

HOLY S---!!!!!! OH MY GAWD !!!!! THERE IS NO GOD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?...this trully is a dark day...oh well, phew *wiping tears* i still have Santa

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yeah, but Santa doesn't come to the "Quik Stop", Jersey boy...

[flyinclockchoke]

is it possible?

Is there any possibility that there are minute portions of the Bible/Koran/Torah that might be bent or skewed? I mean not everybody knew how to read or write back in the day. I seem to recall reading in history classes that many of the poor, peasants, etc... (the majority of the people) couldn't read or write at all. Is it just possible that the priests twisted the words in their favor.

I mean afterall, if it's not uncommon to find gay or child molesting, corrupt priests today, then it wouldn't be inconceivable to find gay, child molesting, corrupt priests back in the day... could any of these gay, child molesting, corrupt priests have had a hand in interpretting the "word" of God? I mean, they're the ones who put all this stuff down on paper, so us normal guys who couldn't read, could go to a big house and sit around and listen to what these dudes had to say about the "word" of God. Meanwhile, after we idiots learned to read, we conveniently had the "word of God" already put down on paper and nicely bound in a leather binder with neat parchment and all that nice shit... While us idiots were reading the "word of God", the priests were off in the back room playing with our childrens' penises!

Are we to blindly accept that our religious leaders were completely without corruption? Afterall, these people were only human, and NO HUMANS are perfect... so why interpret the Bible as PERFECT? Humans compiled the stuff... even if it was the direct WORD OF GOD, some priest with bad f'ucking hearing and Alzheimers disease tried to remember the shit the God said earlier in the day. He had no glasses back then, working in a dark shitty room with a candle. It was cold, he was in a hurry to get the shit down on paper... So he's like, yeah f'uck it... there's only 10 commandments... cause he could only remember 10... Shit, maybe there were more... The priest (Moses or whoever, it's not important), he's only human you know...

We are making advances in science all the time... reformulating theories that we once thought to be true... Why can't it be the same with the Bible, or religions? The world is changing... I'm not saying we change the Bible to suit our needs... what's good and evil will always remain good and evil... but we should all keep an open mind... To believe that one's beliefs are the absolute truth and that everyone else's beliefs are false is to put a bullet to your own head. Why bother learning anything else if you already know everything?

Everyone seems to believe that classical martial arts are dead... so why is classical religion still alive? There is a universal truth, but THERE IS NO ISLAMIC, CHRISTIAN, JEWISH, ETC... TRUTH. Islam, Christianity, etc. is your cultural heritage or an impact of your environment. It's what you learned!

Last week, Bush said explicity that our intentions were not to overthrow the Taliban government. This week, he's appealing to the Afghan people to help overthrow the Government. Can you guys see that this is all just a big shitty game that our governments play? If you still don't think foreign policy has anything to do with this whole deal, please think again. If you think the USA has absolutely NO INTERESTS in a region where the ENERGY RESERVES of the ENTIRE WORLD reside, then you are deliberately lying to yourselves.

[aseepish]

The bible was passed on orally for generations before it was recorded (eventually) in Hebrew. Christ spoke Arimiac. Then everything was translated into Greek, and then into Latin, and then into many other languages. I think there is more than a small chance that many things were skewed in translation.

I saw a documentary about a guy who was translating the old testament from an old Hebrew text. He found that a possible translation for the commandment "Thou shall not kill" could be "Thou shall not commit fratricide."

Religion has been used as a political tool of control for many centuries, in many cultures. This is what Marx was getting at when he said it was the opium of the masses. Again, there is more than a small chance that things have been changed to suit the ruling clergy.

Pax vobiscum,

Tony

[flyinclockchoke]

aseepish...

too true,

i hope people will be smart enough to look at historical facts from a more objective view, especially since we all know how flawed and stupid human beings can be... religious fanatics are a CRAZY bunch...