Why Martial Artists Can't Fight.

[Guest]

OK, we all know that some of them can, but nowhere near as many as should be able to. In another thread it was pointed out that street fighters can "take" most martial artists, and I agree.

Just being a member of some martial arts school is nowhere near enough to make you a good fighter. In fact the opposite is true. And this was especially true before the advent of MMA tournaments, where "Paper Tigers" were exposed by the score.

Here are the reasons why :-

1. People expect the local Karate/Kung Fu/Whatever class to make them invincible. They prattle up and down the dojo punching thin air, and increasingly convince themselves that it is "working". Never mind that your Aunty Gladys could easily manage alongside you..... You are studying the mystical martial arts! You can't lose.......

2. Many people do not study what happens BEFORE a fight even starts. There are many factors involving both psychological and strategic, eg fear control as well as awareness/conflict management training etc. No, they go to the class, do physical techniques only, and expect to win. The Dojo is a VERY controlled environment. The street is totally uncontrolled. Not taking account of this can get you killed.

3. Rules. Many arts are sports based, and these have rules. What other way could it be if you want to spar and compete? But those very rules make you ineffective. How many Boxers can't block kicks? And how many miss golden kicking opportunities? The same holds true for any technique outside the rules of your chosen art. Why go for a complicated submission when you could have beaten him around the chops? Because that is the way you train and, in the heat of the moment, that is what you will naturally do. But it won't work, as he will have his fingers in your eyes and his teeth in your gonads. Ouch! And cross training isn't enough, because even there the most effective techniques are not trained.

4. Reality. The streetfighter lives with reality every day. If he can't win he is no longer a street fighter, so only the strongest and the best survive. And he is nasty too. He doesn't give a shit about you or your family or anything beyond getting what he wants, from you. But all you have to do to survive the dojo is stay in it for an hour or so every few days. Good or bad you are still there.

5. Surprise and evil intent. He will do anything to you in order to win, but you nice folk will think twice before really hurting him. And who can blame you? You could get in alot of trouble by putting him on a slab. You nice folk aren't used to jail, unlike Mr Streetfighter. You will be wandering around with your head in the clouds, thinking about your lovely girlfriend or whatever. He will be waiting in the shadows, and will pounce on you before you even know what is happening..........Bang Stab Kick. The streetfighter wins again.


And there you have it. Your training will make you over confident. Much of it will be ineffective for a real fight and will actually go against you. You are almost totally unprepared, and it will be like lambs to the slaughter.

The solution? Look at the above points and make serious efforts to put them right. Change and adapt your training, or you will be the next Paper Tiger to become a fur rug.

Fond regards!

[crazyjoe380]

Damnnnn! I seen your school and man..

off the hook!! very nice .. i'm hating cause i dont have one school that teaches all grrrrrrr


4.) i agree with number 4 .. if you can't win with fist you get a gun.. thats the streets... that's reality in los angeles..

[Szczepankiewicz]

Well written and to the point.


However, you still suck.




SZ

[AKF]

I've always liked your words and your style, Bri. Once again you are to the point and bang on accurate.

A little FYI for ya...

I was a bouncer in several clubs for 10 years. Fights NEVER 'go' the way they are 'supposed' to. You know in class when the instructor tells you to 'grab me here' and then proceeds to show you how to get out of that situation... Good ****in' luck when the guy grabbing you isn't playing.


Peace.

[blade_cs]

Then what should we do if we wanna learn how do defend ourselves. Since you said that "martial artists can't fight", where WOULD we learn how to fight if not in a martial arts place?

[jee t]

just remember that majority of "streetfighters" may have it in the mind (and even that's rare), but by far dont have it in the moves.
Even the ugliest moves require correct posture, form, etc to cause major pain.
bottom line, taking any art can make anyone better, in 1 way at least

[Brokenmace]

That's a gem coming from you, jee t! TKDork didn't seem to agree with getting kicked in the balls

Seriously, I think the most important points are 1 and 2. Taking care of these may easily take care of the others, at least in part. If you concentrate on them, you'll get the most improvement from the least effort.

I disagree that we all walk around "in the clouds." Anyone whose gotten jumped before knows this is a bad idea. Anyone who lives in a bad hood knows this is stupid.

The truth is that if you simply maintain awareness, control your breathing when assaulted, and kick them in the balls, this will solve about 80% of all (frontal assault) reality combat situations. If they react to the kick in any way before it lands, you should already be going high or disengaging.

If this doesn't work maintain your distance if you can, because everyone has a weapon. It doesn't matter if they really don't, you must respect the worst case scenario. Everyone has a weapon, and this is where I break company with the BJJ crowd. Just try grappling with a guy with a hidden knife.

This life and death. Don't spar in the street. If the assailant has the advantage and you can't equalize (w/ a chair, bottle, gun) then run to a place where you can. Don't just run. Only a jackass will tell you to "just run." A marathon man might be on your ass, then what? Run to a better defensive position. Run to a bar or into a crowd. Run to where there are rocks or chairs or 2X4s. That's called running for your life.

[Guest]

I'm waiting for a few more replies, and then I will be addressing Blade CS's question, how to putthings right.

And I'm going to put ping pong balls over my eyes and start calling you all "Grass Hopper!"

[RishDog]

I am curious to hear your input addressing Blade CS's question, Bri Thai

[AKF]

"Even the ugliest moves require correct posture, form, etc to cause major pain"

jee t -- spoken like someone who has never been in a street fight before.

Biting while in close, scratching at the eyes, head butting, hair pulling and grabbing your groin like it was a toy are common occurances in a street fight. They are performed by aggressive and sick-minded people who KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO HURT PEOPLE. None of these 'moves' requires anything in the way of 'correct posture'. And besides, the BEST way to become a fighter is to fight - that's a fact. You get together with a guy who has been fighting on the streets his entire life, he has has plenty of experience in the art of making people feel pain.

Best street fighter I ever knew was a guy I worked with at a particular bar. He never took a martial art in his life; he just grew up fighting. Ironically, the WORST street fighter I ever knew was a guy who also worked at that same bar. He was a third degree black belt in TKD, and couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

[Ice Phoenix]

If I got into a street altercation I would run, or fight like a psycho bitch on PCP, which means I would gouge and bite and improvise with regards to weapons. My BJJ might help me to an extent.

Most fights don't occur on the street however, and I for one have a high level of "awareness" in such places, so if I got into a fight, most likely it would be in an environment where I could use my BJJ to defend myself, therefore I would.

[crazyjoe380]

ANYONE USING BJJ ME. .. I'M FIGHTING LIKE SAKARABA WITH SOME VANDALIE SILVA..

[jee t]

AKF,
of course that's true, but sadly, even the dirtiest fighter won't pull out biting, or kicking someone in the groin (on purpose, hehe) when there's people around, from fear of embarrassment.
they will (for some reason) try pulling out punches and kicks to look like a man, and most likely wont know how to do them properly.
of course, im thinking about street fights involving criticism.
in the case of desperation, you're right, biting and nut jobs take little skill, I don't know about ZERO skill. Your teeth/leg have got to land, right?

[dzl256]

boooring... being a martial artist and being a street fighter are not mutually exclusive some of my training partners had fifty plus street fights each a lot of guys end up taking grappling and boxing BECAUSE they are getting into fights not because they arent.

[robertlee]

Re: Why Martial Artists Can't Fight.

Originally posted by Bri Thai
OK, we all know that some of them can, but nowhere near as many as should be able to. In another thread it was pointed out that street fighters can "take" most martial artists, and I agree.

Just being a member of some martial arts school is nowhere near enough to make you a good fighter. In fact the opposite is true. And this was especially true before the advent of MMA tournaments, where "Paper Tigers" were exposed by the score.

Here are the reasons why :-

1. People expect the local Karate/Kung Fu/Whatever class to make them invincible. They prattle up and down the dojo punching thin air, and increasingly convince themselves that it is "working". Never mind that your Aunty Gladys could easily manage alongside you..... You are studying the mystical martial arts! You can't lose.......

2. Many people do not study what happens BEFORE a fight even starts. There are many factors involving both psychological and strategic, eg fear control as well as awareness/conflict management training etc. No, they go to the class, do physical techniques only, and expect to win. The Dojo is a VERY controlled environment. The street is totally uncontrolled. Not taking account of this can get you killed.

3. Rules. Many arts are sports based, and these have rules. What other way could it be if you want to spar and compete? But those very rules make you ineffective. How many Boxers can't block kicks? And how many miss golden kicking opportunities? The same holds true for any technique outside the rules of your chosen art. Why go for a complicated submission when you could have beaten him around the chops? Because that is the way you train and, in the heat of the moment, that is what you will naturally do. But it won't work, as he will have his fingers in your eyes and his teeth in your gonads. Ouch! And cross training isn't enough, because even there the most effective techniques are not trained.

4. Reality. The streetfighter lives with reality every day. If he can't win he is no longer a street fighter, so only the strongest and the best survive. And he is nasty too. He doesn't give a shit about you or your family or anything beyond getting what he wants, from you. But all you have to do to survive the dojo is stay in it for an hour or so every few days. Good or bad you are still there.

5. Surprise and evil intent. He will do anything to you in order to win, but you nice folk will think twice before really hurting him. And who can blame you? You could get in alot of trouble by putting him on a slab. You nice folk aren't used to jail, unlike Mr Streetfighter. You will be wandering around with your head in the clouds, thinking about your lovely girlfriend or whatever. He will be waiting in the shadows, and will pounce on you before you even know what is happening..........Bang Stab Kick. The streetfighter wins again.


And there you have it. Your training will make you over confident. Much of it will be ineffective for a real fight and will actually go against you. You are almost totally unprepared, and it will be like lambs to the slaughter.

The solution? Look at the above points and make serious efforts to put them right. Change and adapt your training, or you will be the next Paper Tiger to become a fur rug.

Fond regards!

anybody can fight how well they can depends on being able to think under stress take a punch kick ect, in the dojo kwoon training hall of various schools training is controled to the training of that chosen style most often building conditioned responce to a controled application a street fight has no rules no set pattern that may be why some ma practitioners fail in street situations a personal development needs to be added to there trainig curriculum no to people are alike the same tools wont work as well for each person a street fighter has to to have heart also as well as any good fighter or the pain will weaken his structure quickly a good figter needs a small but useful amount of tools to complete his needs and a strong will to survive this will take him futher in a fight situation we often forget the streets when we have been in a martial art class for a while to train for the the streets one should not forget the type of attacks the street fighter is or may use and keep that in reality training or personal training develop more self awareness learn to control his fears and most important try to not end up in the situation that wold allow for the need to have to fight any though some places it is more likly then not to happen and sometimes running is the answer to even good street fighters have done the same at times