About Real life 'Street Grappling' (JuJutsu) not for the Ring

[JohnnyS]

GreyGhost,
I think I was correct in my assumptions in your post. Let me explain it to you slowly so you understand: In a fight, you don't wait for the guy to tap - you just break his arm or choke him unconscious. Therefore it is useful in a bar fight. I've used BJJ many times in bar fights while working as a bouncer with great success, and I didn't even have to go to the ground.

[JohnnyS]

areusafe,
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make, or are you just using this as an opportunity to plug your website?

I'd love to hear how a 95lb naked women can defend herself against an "Attacker is a 300 lb. male, BLITZED on Angel Dust, FEELS NO PAIN, has the useable strength of 10 to 12 men AND has no moral compunction against crippling maiming or killing you.". Care to elaborate?

[J Rockwell]

Rigan Machado once told me a story about a guy he got into a fight with on the street when he first came to the US. I don't remember how it was instigated, but Rigan was trying to avoid the fight, he is pretty mild mannered. Rigan is not a small dude, about 6' and probably 220 or so. He said the guy was much bigger than him. Anyway, the guy took a swing at him, Rigan took him down and mounted him. He slapped him a few times, the guy rolled over, and Rigan chokes him out. Rigan, being the nice guy that he is, waits around and revives the guy to make sure he's ok. The guy doesn't realize what has happened, and starts trying to punch him again. Rigan takes him down again, mounts him, slaps him, takes the back, chokes him out. This time, Rigan wakes him up and tells him to relax, because if he goes to sleep again, he is going to wake up in the hospital. The guy takes off. Victory for BJJ in the street!

Was Rigan lucky the guy didn't have a weapon? Probably. Was he lucky the guy didn't have friends? Yup. Did he bang his knees up a bit mounting the guy? Probably a bit. Is that particular the way that every "street" scenario is gonna go down? Definitely not. But to me, it's actually pretty refreshing to hear about someone being able to dominate an aggressive attacker and render them unconcious without actually hurting them. Rather than the "I'll take out my knife and stick it up his ass" or "I'll bite his nipples and gouge his eyes" type of solution. Not to say those things shouldn't be addressed. But if you bite Rigan when he's mounted on you, I'm pretty sure he's gonna bite you back, and you probably won't be able to stop him. If you're mounted and you pull a knife on him...well, I would say you'd better use it and use it fast. That's assuming, of course, that he allows you to move your arms at all, he might decide not to do that.

There is a great clip of Bob Bass (Machado Black Belt) relating a story on the new SBG BJJ Series #2 video. I think he was working as bouncer or something, and he slaps some guy in an armlock when they got into a scuffle. He starts to apply pressure to break it, the guy starts yelling "Can I buy you a beer? Can I buy you a beer? Can I buy you a beer?" So Bob eases off on the armlock and lets the guy go. The guy gets up, looking a little bitter, but the situation ends right there.

We can all go into "Psycho-Wolverine-You're-threatening-my-wife-and-kids-now-you-must-die" mode, and we have striking, weapons, and dirty tactics training to make those attacks somewhat more sophisticated if the need should arrise. But BJJ offers additional solutions when that type of brutality is not necessary or practical.

[J Rockwell]

"I'd love to hear how a 95lb naked women can defend herself against an "Attacker is a 300 lb. male, BLITZED on Angel Dust, FEELS NO PAIN, has the useable strength of 10 to 12 men AND has no moral compunction against crippling maiming or killing you.""

I think she runs back into the shower where she was hiding a 12-gauge shotgun.

[J Rockwell]

I just re-read Christian's post and it rocked as usual.

"any animal will claw and bite if backed into a corner, but note that it doesn't really keep it from become the lunch of the superior predator."

Really well said!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

J Rockwell is right on!

Thank you for posting some real experiences instead of just speculation and what if senarios. I've also found that bjj is an excellent way to deescilate a situation or at least take a more humane approach. I have spent a lot of time (over 12 years) working with and training law enforcement, and it's pretty much a universal truth that you run a lot less risk of catching an assult charge or being sued joint locking or choking someone instead of striking, ie. breaking their nose. Mahalo, Jeremy

[Hardball]

My favorite move is to offset with a lightning strike to a pressure point and then go for the choke out with rear strangle or triangle choke. I'm not wasting time with a jugi gatame, hammer lock or chicken wing. In the street I want to end it quickly because chances are my enemy is a trained martial artist or experienced and dangerous streetfighter. I may have to settle for a basic throw like soto geri, uke goshi or ko soto but I'll take it if it means ending a fight with impunity. I'm not going to trade punches with a boxer or trade kicks with a kicking specialist.

That's my street grappling scenario and I go for it everytime. On the mat; well that's a different story.

[areusafe]

HiYa Group,

Hey Johnny S

areusafe,
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make, or are you just using this as an opportunity to plug your website?

I'd love to hear how a 95lb naked women can defend herself against an "Attacker is a 300 lb. male, BLITZED on Angel Dust, FEELS NO PAIN, has the useable strength of 10 to 12 men AND has no moral compunction against crippling maiming or killing you.". Care to elaborate?

I am sorry if I was not clear Johnny S, I was agreeing with you that one shouldn't count on "PAIN" to stop an attacker.

Should Avoidance, Evasion and/or Defusion tactics not work, OR you are in a situation where you can't use them (the above mentioned scenario for instance), and your "only effective" option is to "Get Physical" (quote from a delightful Aussie or maybe KiWi).
We work on: temporary through permanent nerve damage, breaks, cripple strikes and deadly force. If they can't use it they can't hurt you with it. IF they feel pain, so much the better, it tends to END the attack a little faster.
BTW I put the scanned military letters up on the web site today.

[Ironpalm]

Biting? Attempting to blind someone? Grabbing people's testicles?


Jesus Christ, boy. I'd hate to fight you. You fight like a ****ing animal, not a human being.

Humans fight, animals survive...
That was one hell of a post. one everyone should read several times.

[jubaji]

Humans fight, animals survive...
That was one hell of a post. one everyone should read several times.

That could take you hours!

[WonderingTaoist]

That could take you hours!

It would seem like hours compared to the one tenth of a second it would take Ironpalm to splatter you all over the sidewalk.
There are survival arts and there are sports . One has nothing to do with the other.

[JohnnyS]

Okay, I'll take the bait: What exactly is the difference between the "survival arts" and the "sports" ? In what instances is one better than the other and why?

[jubaji]

It would seem like hours compared to the one tenth of a second it would take Ironpalm to splatter you all over the sidewalk.

hahahahahaahahahahahahaaa

Whatever you say, champ!

[WonderingTaoist]

hahahahahaahahahahahahaaa

Whatever you say, champ!

"
"............................................... !

[Tom Yum]

My favorite move is to offset with a lightning strike to a pressure point and then go for the choke out with rear strangle or triangle choke. I'm not wasting time with a jugi gatame, hammer lock or chicken wing. In the street I want to end it quickly because chances are my enemy is a trained martial artist or experienced and dangerous streetfighter. I may have to settle for a basic throw like soto geri, uke goshi or ko soto but I'll take it if it means ending a fight with impunity. I'm not going to trade punches with a boxer or trade kicks with a kicking specialist.

That's my street grappling scenario and I go for it everytime. On the mat; well that's a different story.

Hey Hardball, do you train in Japanese Jujitsu or kenpo?

What do you think of the kenpo-jujitsu system (Larry Tatum I think)?