BJJ or Judo?

[akja]

no bjj is better

[akja]

no mma is better

[tigercats12]

BJJ

I did not go on the offensive.. i said exactly what i meant. he is very effective in stand up and striking. the point i was making is everyone always says BJJ is ALL ground work when in truth it is very much striking throws takedowns etc as well as ground work.. people see royce fight and assume that it is ALL ground work.. that gets old after hearing it for a while. i just think they should know about BJJ before saying there are no strikes or stand up involved with it.

[akja]

BJJ concentrates on the ground. The art is built around ground technique. Vale Tudo is not BJJ, it can be but technically it is not.

I put 3 years in BJJ in one of Joe Moreiras schools. No striking!

The only standup was the throws and thats mainly because Joe has a Judo background also.

Traditional Jujitsu has all that stand up but thats not what you'll see in any bjj schools I've ever heard of unless they were training for MMA, which is differant.

[tigercats12]

try out rickson gracie's school. also there are so many variations of BJJ now it is ridiculous. most simply focus on the ground but that is not true BJJ. when it originally started to form, it included everything, but it focused a lot on the ground because most real fights end up there. that being said, it did still involve much striking and stand up as well as throws and takedowns. what has happened lately is, because of so many people wanting to learn groundfighting(in cross training) that most schools just teach groundwork. that is all most people want to learn when it comes to BJJ, so schools have tailored it in that way. true or should i say original BJJ was looked at as not simply a sport but a system for real fights, street fights, not just submission matches, or NHB competitions. heck with the popularity of JJ now days many traditional JJ schools teach almost all groundwork because that is what people want to learn.

[akja]

The traditional Jujitsu schools you've seen must not be traditional, just came from traditional.

I know Rickson is great but I also that Joe Moreira is a recognized 6th degree in BJJ under Relson Gracie and you don't get that far by bastardizing your art.

But you make more sense than what these guys give you credit for! Rickson is getting too old, why risk losing an unblemished record, I'm about the same age as him, I wish I was young enough to compete.

Ricksons fight record will be up on top for a long time, and if somebody does better, he'll still be up in the top few forever.

[kungfupanda]

IMO the stand up techniques of JJ are better than the ground techniques. The traditional JJ folks could break your wrist, elbow, and shoulder with out even moving thier feet.

[Guest]

Re: either way

"either way he is just as effective."

and

"I did not go on the offensive.. i said exactly what i meant. he is very effective in stand up and striking."

Both posted in this thread by Tigger.

I do hate pedantic people. But the phrase "he is very effective in stand up and striking" is NOT the same as "either way he is JUST AS EFFECTIVE....."

Either you said what you mean't, and are now trying to lie your way out of it; you did NOT say what you mean but want to avoid admitting it; or you don't know what you mean.

Take your pick Tigger!

[tigercats12]

um duh get with it

Bri tai, it is obvious you just want to talk in circles and attempt to sound intelligent. to bad you are failing miserably at the intelligence part of it.
i did say what i meant, it is not my fault if you can't grasp it.
he is just as effective IMO because he wins fights in many ways. he wins standing and striking, ground and striking, ground submission and standing submission. so yes he is just as effective.

we are not talking tournaments we are talking real fights and NHB. as i said before if it was a MT match with MT rules he would lose, but that has no bearing on whether or not he is just as effective striking or on the ground.. oh well i guess you just want to hear yourself talk...

[tigercats12]

akja

akja, i just thought i should post this to prove my point that it is not all groundwork, since you were talking about reylson gracie... these are a couple of quotes directly from him

""Unfortunately, most people think Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is only groundfighting. What most people know are the sporting events they see on TV, which scares away some women, children, and the average man away from my academy."

" IKFP: We have seen many examples of the excellent ground-fighting techniques within the Gracie system. Do these techniques make up the majority of techniques in Gracie Jiu-jitsu?

Gracie: No. Although it is true that ninety percent of fights will eventually end up on the ground, ground techniques are just a portion of Gracie Jiu-jitsu. What makes jiu-jitsu such a wonderful art is that it contains the strikes and kicks of karate, the ground fighting techniques of judo, and the jointlocks and throws of aikido.
In Gracie Jiu-jitsu, we look at all fighting systems to see what they have. We are not so proud that we won't accept a good technique from Karate, boxing or any fighting form. In fact, my father was a Brazilian boxing champion, so we have some boxing techniques in the system.

We prepare our students to defend themselves in any situation, so we have counters for bare-handed attacks, knife attacks, club attacks, multiple-man attacks, any situation that you may encounter. We really have too many techniques to write down."

[akja]

Dude you got that straight from his website. Sounds like a sales pitch don't it?

You spelled his name right too, where I didn't.

Your probably true to your art. In my heart I am a grappler, but in reality, I can't help but see through the eyes of a striker!

[MrPoopy]

I guess when I did BJJ it must have been old school BJJ. Most of the kicking we did (wich wasn't much) was mostly muay thai style kicks and the stomp kick you use to setup and shoot.

[Guest]

Tigger, you have no Vulcan in you.

[Monkey]

Download the video (on Bullshido.com) of some Gracie brothers going to a Judo club and watch it.

Rickson has on occasion fought (starting from the standing position) one after the other a room full of Judo black belts and tapped them all effortlessly. Take it to the ground, grapple for position, submit.

Doesn't that tell you something?

When it is free grappling (take out all the special Judo rules), a decent Jiu Jitsu fighter creams a decent Judo fighter. And that's from a standing start, as well.

Judo training I see as a complement to Jiu Jitsu. Because in Jiu Jitsu fights, you are awarded points for a takedown, and it allows you more control over the fight. But just because you take somebody down doesn't mean you stop the fight, like in Judo. If the person has a good guard (e.g. any Gracie Barra fighter), you could be in a lot of trouble (DANGER) if you take them down and they pull guard.

In the state Jiu Jitsu championships last year, an Olympic Team Judo black belt competed, as a white belt in Jiu Jitsu. My friend fought him, and got thrown, but used his guard, and swept him, and passed his guard, and mounted him, and choked him. And my friend was a white belt in Jiu Jitsu, never trained Judo in his life. But submitted an Olympic Team Judo black belt. And they were the same weight.

Judo has to many rules and the rules are too restrictive. Jiu Jitsu rules allow for FREE grappling.

For instance, I've heard Judo doesn't allow you to shoot. You're NOT ALLOWED to do double legs, etc. It's crazy. And the fight is stopped after a number of seconds on the ground and they stand you back up? And you can't pull guard. That's ridiculous. That's not real grappling.

I do Gracie Jiu Jitsu and so my takedowns aren't very good. But at least I can shoot, and I can defend a shoot. But Judo people don't even train for this. How often have you seen a Judo fighter sprawl in a Judo fight? I've never seen it happen.

The fact is, Jiu Jitsu is skyrocketing in popularity relative to Judo, of course people charge more money. However, there are a lot of bullshit "BJJ" instructors out there who have never fought in a single championship. The advantage of Judo is there are probably a lot more quality Judo instructors around and the sport has a lot more prestige due to its Olympic status.

Jiu Jitsu is also sport, but at least it's realistic free grappling.

You should be able to fight without interference or special rules and stoppages until time runs out (in which case points are counted) or one person submits. That's Jiu Jitsu.

[MrPoopy]

For instance, I've heard Judo doesn't allow you to shoot. You're NOT ALLOWED to do double legs, etc. It's crazy. And the fight is stopped after a number of seconds on the ground and they stand you back up? And you can't pull guard. That's
ridiculous. That's not real grappling.

Double and single leg takedowns are legal in Judo. What's not legal is taking your opponents leg and not trying to complete the takedown.

As far as ground work goes, they will stand you back up if you're not making any progress. And from what I understand, some Judo refs are not all that familiar with newaza and really don't know whats going on when the match goes to the ground.

If by pulling guard you mean literally pulling your opponent down into your guard, that's not legal. But it is legal to use the guard once the match goes to the ground.

Where did you hear pulling guard and shooting was illegal?