Is BJJ really Ju jitsu?

[Toudiyama]

Re: boxing

Originally posted by Temujin
Wasn't Carlos Gracie a pro boxer before doing JJ with Maeda? I posted this before but the transition from boxing to MMA fighters seemed a natural turn of events for the family to follow as stepping into a ring to fight was natural for them. Pretty cool.

On www.bjjfighers.com I found that Maeda was actually a Kodokan Judo man and it is not clear why he called his teachings ju jitsu

[Hakoko]

I believe I covered this in one of my earlier posts. Carlos, learned Kodokan Judo from Maeda. They chose the Ne Waza aspect of Judo and decidedto build upon that. I don't believe that he called it jiu-jitsu, I believe the Gracie's renamed what they learned to jiu-jitsu. Hope this helps

[Guest]

Kodokan Judo was much more effective as a martial art than todays sport Judo. After WW2 the Americans only allowed Judo to be practiced in sport form, so many effective self defence techniques lost their popularity. But, of course, the Brazillians didn't have this restriction, hence their success.

Mind you, since the worldwide popularity of BJJ, and subsequent money making potential (espeically American money), it seems that the Americans are now ruinnig the self defence aspect of BJJ too (albeit indirectly), as that is becoming a sport as well!

Who says I can't be controversial?

[Lost Ronin]

The history of BJJ is kinda muddled, no doubt about that. But, just because Maeda was known to be a Kodokan guy, does not mean that he didn't practice Jujutsu. Most Judo practicioners also did Jujutsu, not to mention the fact that Judo is a subsystem of Jujutsu (in some ways). He might have favored the ground aspect of the art and taught Carlos those techniques. And yes, I said Carlos, not Helio. Because if you have read about Gracie history then you know that Helio was a sickly youth, and he could not practice any sports. So all he did was watch his brother teach jujutsu and he started developing his own style which relied on pure technique and not strength. The kind of style that would probably be developed by a weak, sickly person ( I say this to make a point, not to disrespect Helio.) I don't think that the Samurai forgot to grapple, they just focused on other principles and they lessened the emphasis on ground work so much that they sort of lost it. But this statement is partly true, anyone that has studied Judo has seen some ground work. Even shotokan karate has some ground work in it ( I shit you not.) About the name Gracie Jujutsu, Rorion Gracie insists that Maeda taught his father Jujutsu, Judo is never mentioned. And if you follow Gracie history you will probably remember the challenge matches that Helio fought against Judo guys, claiming the superiority of his art. Oh yeah, some of the Gracies did cross train in boxing, Carlson Gracie's challenge match against Waldemar Santana was a TKO by stand up strikes if I remember correctly.
There is much misinformation about BJJ and Jujitsu that it's hard to find reliable sources, but these are published "facts", not heresay.

[shinbushi]

Lack of ground fighting

The reason that ground fighting was not in older (koryu )jujutsu was because if you are heavily armored on the battlefield weaing your daisho (Long and short sword), jutte(Trunchon), war fan, rope, falling to the ground was death, read turtle on his back. It was the later styles usually post Meiji(1868 - 1912) that had ground fighting elements.

[unknown warrior]

BJJ is NOT real Ju-jutsu. I know this because i have met the gracie brothers and they have told me this in person.

[Guest]

All of them?