how do you tell someone that their style is crap without hurting their feelings?

[Crouchtig]

i have relatives who do karate.

i hate karate

i want to tell them that their style is crap and advise them to do something else

but i dont want to annoy them or hurt their feelings.

i was thinking about asking them why they do martial arts and when they say: its fun/its excersise/its self defense i will say: thai boxing is: equaly fun/better excersise/better for self defense

they can disagree if they want to live in denial and no one is upset.

they think that its special cos they have a japanese teacher. its the japanese that messed karate up in the first place.

ps its shotokan

[Toudiyama]

I would say don't tell show that Shotokan is crap, that you can't move from stances as deep as they do them and that from that same deep stance(zenkutsu dachi) you actually can move the hip in a proper way so Shotokan that stresses hipmovement as being important is a contradiction to how it is being practiced

But why would you, did they start karate to be able to defend themself or just for sport, if the latter, you shouldn't say their style is crap at all, if for selfdefence then maybe

[Guest]

Just tell em. Who cares if they get upset? They won't be able to hurt you........


Only joking. Offer to show them something better, and then do it. People invest so much hope into the art that there is real resistance to the idea that everything they have done up to now may be useless.

A friend of mine has his kid doing Shotokan. He keeps prattling on how good the instructors are, but it is only because they kick high in their semi contact bolloxy sparring.

He won't listen, even after I lent him a couple of the original UFC tapes.

But the kid will learn one day and kick his dad's arse for wasting all that time!

[Toudiyama]

Hey Bri : Or he'll become a Kata champion and thinks he can fight

won puncha, won killa yeah right tell that to Nogueira (darn can he take punches)
show him Pride25 Vedor vs Nogueira and then ask how they think one punch one kill (or killing punch) will work against such a guy

[Szczepankiewicz]

Ryan Hall.... I certainly don't envy your position as moderator...

[eXcessiveForce]

If you think your way is better than theirs, invite them to come to a class at your gym. maybe they will like it and change. If they don't let them do what works for them.

[Cain]

hmmm

well, when you say that you know your art is better, you know their motivation for going there? maybe they just want to meet friends, have a good time, work out in an interesting way.. and if that is so? let them! not all have the same urge as some of us do to be a 'warrior' to be 'undefeatable'.. some just want to get in shape and have a good time..

[Citrux]

Why cant we all just get along? I wouldn't really care if someone told me that Choy Lay Fut kung fu is crap. I practice what I want.

[MrPoopy]

My wife's sister's boyfriend is some kind of TKD expert. She (my wife's sister) tells me that he started martial arts when he was 13, by teaching himself ninjitsu and the japanese language from a book. She also brags about how he does this stupid trick where he can kick a cigerette out of someones mouth without touching their head. Surely his co-workers at Big Lots are totally impressed by it.

And of course he's a black belt. I don't think you could spend more than 6 months doing TKD and not become a black belt.

But I've kept my opinions to myself. Because one day I'm going to trick this guy into grappling with me and it's going to be a lot of fun seeing the expression on his face when he gets choked.

[seeker]

I don´t think Karate is crap. It has some pretty useless things and forms, but it still a deadly art. It is not just the art that counts, it is also the person training. Í´ve seen Karateka´s putting up a good fight against paople who train other arts. I´ve even seen aikidokas winning kungfu practisers and beyond.
So, don´t be so judgemental when talking about other martial arts or maybe one day you mock the wrong people. There is something good in all martial arts.

[Toudiyama]

Crouchtig why do you hate Karate, what has it done to you?

[Great Sage]

Crouchtig,

So far, you haven't even presented a case explaining why karate is worthless... Have you beaten every karate pratitiioner out there? Where exactly are you coming from?

Furthermore, the Japanese messed up karate? That's bull... If anything, they created karate from Okinawan-te... It's not their fault that many of us Americans suck at karate, TKD or any martial art... We have commercialized MA, marketed it... turned it into what it's not. Hence, MA is a sport today.

We pay BIG money for Koreans, Japanese, Thais etc... to teach their techniques... And now, we have a big enterprise based on MA Mcdojos... Now, anyone who has any inkling about MA, rush to the US to teach... And it's become so hard to separate good gyms from bad.

[kengar]

So what makes you the judge of their karate school? You could be right, their particular school may suck, but to say karate is crap is ignorant. That's just like saying, because you can grapple you can beat any stand-up fighter.
Give some reasons why you don't like their school. I speak bad about TKD, but I am refering to the McDojo's and the schools who only care about getting their students to tournaments. TKD can be a powerful art, but its been run amuck by the white man.
And if they like their school, maybe you should learn to respect people's wishes.

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Crouchtig,

So far, you haven't even presented a case explaining why karate is worthless... Have you beaten every karate pratitiioner out there? Where exactly are you coming from?

Furthermore, the Japanese messed up karate? That's bull... If anything, they created karate from Okinawan-te... It's not their fault that many of us Americans suck at karate, TKD or any martial art... We have commercialized MA, marketed it... turned it into what it's not. Hence, MA is a sport today.

We pay BIG money for Koreans, Japanese, Thais etc... to teach their techniques... And now, we have a big enterprise based on MA Mcdojos... Now, anyone who has any inkling about MA, rush to the US to teach... And it's become so hard to separate good gyms from bad.

Sorry but it was the Japanese who messed karate up, or at least were the cause of it

Itosu Anko simplified it so it could be instructed on the highschools/coleges and universities and function as a base for the military training afterwards, bunkai wasn't instucted there and old kata were preceded by the pinan kata, which are broken up old kata( parts of kushanku can be found in the majority of the pinan kata)
It is not shure if Funakoshi knew the bunkai or just chose not to instruct them, On top of that Funakoshi stressed Kata, it were his best studens Ohtsuka(Wado) and Konishi(Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai) who started experimenting with kumite(on okinawa they were still doing kumite in the old schools)
Funakoshi's son totally messed up karate by introducing the deep stances and larger movements, it is said that one goes from large movents to small and from deep stances to higher up stances but if you have ever seen a high ranking Shotokan karateka, you know that they do not change small movements and higher up stances though
Because this karate funtioned as a base for others (not Wado and JKR because they learned the small moves and higher up stances from Funakoshi) a lot of karate is useless
Oyama of the Kyokushin was instructed by the son of Funakoshi so got this crap but he regarded it as such and switched to a Gojustyle karate

Early karatecompititions were hard, even had lowkick in it made also with the shin(sunegeri (I'm not shure but I believe that takedows could even score)) but the japanese took those out

PS I am a karateka( doing other things on the side)

[Kingston]

First of all i think its better to judge MA's in a school by school Basis (perhaps consider the style as well) AND the reasons the people are going to the school.

does something have to be the BEST out there to be worth while?
or does it have to be the best in your area? But if you have that reasoning where does it end? whats the best school in the world? Is everything else crap compared to it? is having a decent school good enough? Is wether a school is decent or not judged upon what other school are in the area?

who cares if there Karate is not the best out there, are they enjoying it? Are they learning anything?

If there "style" is crap its crap, there shouldn't be much of a debate if its crap, if your relatives are smart it should be easy for them to see its crap when you show them the options. Otherwise just drop it.

Why are you going to your school? Because in some respects im sure people could reason that your school is crap.