Karate revisited

[Thai Bri]

Sigh. Same conversation that I've seen in a dozen forums. People seem to forget that there is a difference between martial skills and a martial art. A martial art encompasses martial skills, but that is no longer the focus on fighting that there was in the past. Much of it is focussed on avoiding the confrontation.

'

So why do they keep on insisting that they are learning effective fighting arts then?

I've seen the pattern.....

Karate is effective

No its not

Yes it is

No its not because (insert massive list of reasons here)

Well, we focus on mental development....


But then they're off again, claiming fighting effectiveness.......

[KSD]

Strip it down to the basics, get rid of the kata, and actually train, then it can/is effective.

[Thai Bri]

True...........

[sherwinc]

So why do they keep on insisting that they are learning effective fighting arts then?

I've seen the pattern.....

Karate is effective

No its not

Yes it is

No its not because (insert massive list of reasons here)

Well, we focus on mental development....


But then they're off again, claiming fighting effectiveness.......

Maybe one of the greatest achievement of Martial Arts is to counquer yourself, once you conquer yourself (eventhou w/o experience in ringfights) then it is truely effective....

Note:
you are only the one who know that it is truely effective by means of:
Studying your opponents moves and those of yours ....... you will truely win in the end....... ( no cheating)

[KSD]

Maybe one of the greatest achievement of Martial Arts is to counquer yourself, once you conquer yourself (eventhou w/o experience in ringfights) then it is truely effective....

Note:
you are only the one who know that it is truely effective by means of:
Studying your opponents moves and those of yours ....... you will truely win in the end....... ( no cheating)

You still spewing out crap

[sherwinc]

You still spewing out crap

HAW HAW HAW

[CrescentDreams]

HAW HAW HAW

shernwinc you crack me up sometimes!

[Thai Bri]

I should have patented that "HAW HAW HAW". He'd owe me alot of money!

[CHOKE UK]

You still spewing out crap

I agree with that comment ksd!

What on earth was he talking about,
the only time I can remember balloney like that was after recieving a full muay thai roundhouse to the head!

Yes this topic has gone on for many a moon,
but still many people just dont get it !

That is the underlying problem,
that they seem so arrogant that they just presume that karate is king, unyet all the evidence points to the contrary!

For those of us that once did these in-effective types of martial arts.
We were once unaware of just what a waste of time it was, aswell.

But the difference is that we have moved on and opened our eyes!
See the light!!!!!!
And I dont mean the spot-light on sherwank at Terry Wogans "come-kata" dancing competition !

CHA-CHA-CHA

[darrianation]

I keep saying I am going to stop putting Karate down so much, but I just can’t seem to resist.

In my opinion Karate (as well with most traditional MAs) has about 15% effective techniques/strategy/philosophy. The rest is made of stylistic and cultural stuff that has nothing to do with effectiveness.

The things or changes needed to make them effective will change it to the point it would no longer be karate.

I know your all going to want to hunt me down and shoot me for my next comment but I’m going to tell you anyway. Basically the traditional MAs are only around for the feel gooders, the plumpers who want to get into shape/loose a few pounds, and the old and feeble.

Besides kids, these groups seem to make up the bulk of most Karate classes.

[CHOKE UK]

I keep saying I am going to stop putting Karate down so much, but I just can’t seem to resist.

In my opinion Karate (as well with most traditional MAs) has about 15% effective techniques/strategy/philosophy. The rest is made of stylistic and cultural stuff that has nothing to do with effectiveness.

The things or changes needed to make them effective will change it to the point it would no longer be karate.

I know your all going to want to hunt me down and shoot me for my next comment but I’m going to tell you anyway. Basically the traditional MAs are only around for the feel gooders, the plumpers who want to get into shape/loose a few pounds, and the old and feeble.

Besides kids, these groups seem to make up the bulk of most Karate classes.

LOL..Excellent.........
I luv the bit about plumbers !!!!!
15 % effective??????? you are bing a bit generous!
Kid's and karate , now theres another issue !
I know many parents make their kids go to Karate lessons because
"its so important to be able to fight off an attacker in this day and age!"
Little do they know they are wasting their money!
But thats just it, they do not know!!!
They genuinely believe that if their kids are attacked then they can use kata tol defend themselves!
cha-cha-cha!
Good post anyway darrianation........keep up the good work.....
togeather we can fight this evil !!!!!

[wardancer]

wardancer, carefull u r beginning to sound a bit like sher-wank!!!!

No disrespect but you are no-gracie!

Their family spent decades building their type of jui jitsu and still modify it to this day!

If you throw anyway everything that doesnt work in karate,
then u throw away karate !

why bother with decades of trying to change peoples mind that dont want to hear the truth!
I dont follow your logic?
When u can simply do Muay thai in the first place!!!!!!!!!

People like sher-wank arent going to listen when u tell them everything they have wasted their time doing for the past 10 years was a dead loss!

so they live in denial!

I have seen it so many times,
black belts 3rd dans etc come to one lesson and all of them recieved a "shock"..........as I had done previously.

But where it opened my eyes, and I though"oh god i haave been wasting my time for soo long, it's gotta change here and now!"
Most Karateka simply walk away with tail between legs and dont come back!

I had tried dozens of arts before but
Full Muay Thai opened my eyes to the striking art!
But anyone who says it is not hard in everyway is a fibber!
Like I say it's not for everyone!
Thats why they have Terry Wogans "come-kata!" dance competitions,
starring sher-wank and perhaps wardancer if he's not careful............................(mmmm what a luvly couple!)....only joking war-dancer!

I totally agree with you.
I do not do Karate anymore and have no intention of creating a revolution in the Karate world a la "Gracie". That would be silly and I do not have the intention of wasting time on trying to convert the 'inconvertables'. e.g sher-wank.

At the moment, I quiet satisfied training in BJJ and Muy Thai.
My point I was trying to make was that:
1. Not enough Karatekas are winning K1. If they did win more K1, we will not be having this conversion. But it's time tha i back up my point with more prove, I will do more research and find a list of Karatekas that are winning K1 fights. However, Francisco Filho are proved that Karateka could become very succesfull in K1. I notice you did not bother acknowledge that point but rather try to mock me by comparing me to a no-Gracie or a sher-wanc. Quiet franckly, I have being sincere in my posts and read/respect your posts with great interest. Finally, I can read about others experiences and realize that I am not the only that have grown disgruntled with karate. Hopefully, others can read it too and get to the reasons of why Karate does not work. I would not like this thread to degenerate into a non productive/silly comments like mocking my username just because you cannot come up with constructive replies and would rather mock than read/reply. From your username, I guess you might be British but I am not here to mock others..

2. Karate is not a static MA. The traditionalist/conservative Karatekas would like to think so. I don't. Karate has been transformed through the years e.g Kyokushin, Ashihara. A karateka fighting in K1 is using Karate NOT thai box. Face it, all Thai Box strikes/style are included in Karate, it is just naive or foolish to say that Karate does not have kicks, punches, jabs, elbows, knees etc... Just like the difference between JJJ and BJJ, Karatekas rather waste their time doing Katas and braking bats rather than just training the core of Karate (Just do striking and fighting) is true and I am not arguing that.

But saying that if you take everything that do not work in Karate and that would not be Karate is like saying, I take all the extras of a car and you don't have a car...but you still have a mainframe and a running engine that will go faster because the car has less weight.

[wardancer]

LOL..Excellent.........
I luv the bit about plumbers !!!!!
15 % effective??????? you are bing a bit generous!
Kid's and karate , now theres another issue !
I know many parents make their kids go to Karate lessons because
"its so important to be able to fight off an attacker in this day and age!"
Little do they know they are wasting their money!
But thats just it, they do not know!!!
They genuinely believe that if their kids are attacked then they can use kata tol defend themselves!
cha-cha-cha!
Good post anyway darrianation........keep up the good work.....
togeather we can fight this evil !!!!!

A kid that does Karate when attacked has better chance to defend himself that a kid that does no MA at all.
A kid that does Thai Box will be better prepared than a kid that does Karate.
Do you have kids at your Thai Box club?
I don't.
Why?

[Thai Bri]

A kid that does Karate when attacked has better chance to defend himself that a kid that does no MA at all.

That is 100% NOT true. Any semi able bodied human can fight. Fighting arts are about increasing the effectiveness of the moves the body performs.

Teaching a kid that static robotic nonsense will send his fighting potential spiralling backwards. Like in the (in my view) classic "Self Defence" by Sydney Hoare: "if you end up fighting a trained Karate or Kung Fu man, lots of their punches are trained against thin air. Just wade in hard and fast, you may well find them to be Paper Tigers".

Karate is full of compliance and robotic crap. Real fights aren't.

[wardancer]

Why are you so fixated on the 'punching the air' thing for?
Did you not get to spar with your mates at the Dojo?
If you only got to punch air, you definitely have not being doing Karate.
It is like saying you wnet to Hong Kong, got learn how to tie your belt on the uniform and then then flew back home, got your ass whipped and then cry than Kunf fu sucks!