G.W. Bush's Creationist beliefs

[Joe Manco]

Newbie:

You are a long-winded, hoplessly clueless clown. All you theists ever do is try to put those of scientific (i.e., HONEST) mind on the defense, forever calling into question their methods. All of the research to prove the veracity of scientific carbon dating, etc. is in any university library. If you were *truly* intersted in understanding it fully, you would go there to read about it (and anything else under the sun), but you won't. You have no interest in becoming truly informed on the subject, only in clouding the issue with rhetorical questions to remove the focus from the TOWERING INADEQUACY of your own beliefs.

Again, this is the hallmark of the intellectually fraudulent theist:

So I've got a better idea. I want YOU to answer some questions about your "Bibble." LMAO, hell, let's start with the first page I want you to address what appear to be laughable follies of fact that prove this "work" not only to be false, but ridiculously false. Please explain the following:

1. in :15, :16, and :17 of Genesis it says God made the "lights" for earth. The greater light for day, the lesser for the night. Um, Newbie ... the moon is not a "light" ... it but reflects the sun. So there truly is only one "light," the sun ... the moon is just a reflector of it ... but of course uneducated primitives would know this then they composed the Bibble. However, if the Bibble was "divinely inspired" shouldn't GOD have at least inspired more accuracy in his writings? Please explain this error of fact.
   
   
2. Could you explain further the manner in which God created Adam "out of the dust" and "breathed life into his nostrils?" I am curious to understand the methodology of this feat so that perhaps it could be repeated through experiment.
   
   
3. Also, I would like to understand why this same procedure couldn't be repeated with Eve ... why Adam's RIB was necessary to add to the dust to create Eve ... and I would like a full write-up on the methodology here too.
   
   
4. Also, I am curious how the serpent in the Garden of Eden formed the power of speech to entice Eve. Could you please explain how the anatomy of a serpent's tongue and throat could be formed to speak ... and especially how it could hear Eve's reply ... as snakes are DEAF and DUMB. If you are going to cop out of this assininity by saying the serpent was "possessed by the Devil" ... then please give a detailed explanation of how one "takes possession" of another's body. I would appreciate a full write-up so I can understand your belief system more thouroughly ... so perhaps I may stop thinking of you as a total f*cking moron for believing this tripe in our day and age.
   
   
5. Next there is the issue of Cain and Abel. Now Adam and Eve bore Cain and Abel, right? I got that part down OK. Then Cain slew poor Abel and was driven into the land of Nod where he knew his wife. Um ... Newbie ... where the f*ck did his wife come from? I though Adam and Eve were *it* and they had Can and Abel. OK? So please give me a full write-up as to what the hell this new broad is doing in the story, how she got there, and who her parents were.

Well, that was just the first three pages of your hallowed Bibble that I have serious concerns with. Please address these concerns for me, and try to rectify them and present them in such a way as they don't make A LAUGHING STOCK out of your IQ.

Again, Newbie, you have tried to deftly turn around every argument against your idiocy into questioning scientific fact ... but you refuse to face the incredibly loud noise that your beliefs cry out as PURE BULLSH!T. So, please, Newbie, do us all a favor - indeed YOURSELF a favor - and explain away these simple errors contained within just the first three pages of this incredible work of poppyc*ck that you believe in ... and then I will continue on with page 4 ...

Yours truly,

Joe




[Edited by Joe Manco on 11-21-2000 at 11:54 AM]

[Tony10]

Well, I guess the heat's off you now for a while, Ronin...

[Ronin]

Tony10:

I feel so blessed!

[Newbie]

Pit Dog

Pit Dog

"All of the research to prove the veracity of scientific carbon dating, etc. is in any university library. If you were *truly* intersted in understanding it fully, you would go there to read about it (and anything else under the sun), but you won't. "

How are you so unsure of your assumption that I have not spent considerable time researching the subject? It is in your best interest to research the issue as much as possible in order to determine what areas you can choose to attack and in which ways to attack them.

"So I've got a better idea. I want YOU to answer some questions about your "Bibble."

I repeat my statement from before:

"I believe that any field of study which claims to be
scientific, is taught in the public school system as scientific fact, and has it's educational curriculum as well as it's research funded by the taxpayers of this country should be held to a higher standard of scientific scrutiny than a set of religious beliefs which are not taught in the public schools as a scientific theory."

Why is it that you feel differently regarding this point?

Additionally, I repeat my question that if the evidence supporting evolutionist theory is so overwhelming, why are you so incapable of doing anyhting other than attempt to discredit my intelligence and RELIGIOUS BELIEFS? This appears to be nothing more than another attempt to divert attention take the focus off evolution, while at the same time discrediting your opponent. Surely one should be able to defend evolution without attacking Creationism.

[Joe Manco]

Get the f*ck out of here Newbie.

Answer MY questions you dullwitted boob.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Relayer]

Hey Newbie,

Time to breakout some irrefutable proof! There have been some important research breakthroughs to support your “Scientific” Creationist positions. Maybe this will help you answer Manco’s questions!

It seems that “Relying on a hunch inspired by the Holy Spirit, Landover Creation-Paleontologists have conclusively determined that American Christians, GODSIMAGE CHRISTIANUS AMERICANUS, are exactly as God created them 6,000 years ago, when He created the universe in six days. Other breeds of lesser hominids, which pass themselves off as decedents of Adam, however, actually have a few apes swinging from their family trees.

Dr. Marcus Neiman, chairman emeritus of Creation Anthropology at Landover Baptist University has this to say:

“God created human beings separate from primates. There are different kinds of hominids, just like there are different kinds of mustard. There are small primates called chimpanzees. They are the cute little fellows who live in trees, like the one in that movie our greatest President, Ronald Reagan, starred in -- “Bedtime for Bonzo.” Now that was a movie, and God bless that man. There are large primates that live on the jungle floor and scare missionaries, who, being Christians, are armed against them. They are called gorillas. There are even primates that play basketball, rob liquor stores, organize marches and make some attempt at imitating human speech. They are called Negroes. Regrettably, if there is such a thing a “natural selection,” most of them have selected to be naturally lazy. They are living examples of the Lord’s unfinished business because these more primitive hominids are still evolving.”

“As True Christians have long suspected,” said Dr. Neiman at a press conference, “homosexuals are clearly sub-humans. They are descended from homo erectus (named for their disgusting, perverted behavior and because of their pornographic tumescence in the face of their perversion) and were molesting orangutans from the sixth day of Creation up until around the sinking of the Lusitania. They are a prime example of what we Christians like to call unnatural selection.”

You can check here for backup:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0700/creation.html

http://www.bettybowers.com/crime.html

Good luck.

[Eazy-E]

Steed-

Brilliant post!! I like your sense of distain.



Relayer,

Very clever post, too.


Newbie & David A -

Pitdog is right - go to the library and check out the scientific research on carbon dating, fossil remains, etc..

Most of us here are not willing to spoon feed you on the stuff you should have learned in high school! The information is there if you are willling to do the work.

But it is rather entertaining to watch Newbie continue with the clever sophistry of attacking evolution. Maybe you should be a lawyer!

E

[Mr. Miyagi]

Homo erectus is called such because they stood erect on two limbs and did not use their arms when walking.
There are different types of radioactive methods for dating such as blind dates, double dates, no just kidding. Anyway, I took Anthro 101 many years ago and don't remember all my facts. I only remember using carbon 14 dating and it made perfect sense and everyone in the class agreed on it. I will have to read up on this again but I believe that you are mistaken Newbie.
Out of curiousity Newbie, why do you choose to believe in the Bible and teachings of Christianity? I've never figured out why anyone would follow a religion.
Last but not least, noone will ever convince me that the earth was created 6000 years ago and that the whole universe was created within the same week.

[Edited by Mr. Miyagi on 11-21-2000 at 07:07 PM]

[david a]

Easy e,
I mentioned nothing about carbon-dating, that's Newbie's
juristiction.

I am curious to see if he will respond to Joe's valid question's though....
(Darn, how come no one asks me stuff like that. He,He)

Good question Miyagi,
we should not only know what we believe, but why we believe it!

[Ryu (non-working password]

Hello, Mr. Miyagi,
Well for a short answer, I do believe morality is a very important concept in societal life, and individual life for that matter. So if you asked me, I follow "religion" because there are sound moral aspects to it that I really believe can give off a positive energy.
Though my moral beliefs are made up from bushido and chivalry just as much as actual religious teachings. It seems sad however, that "Christian" now a days seems to bring up images of weird people spouting that the earth is 6000 years old and there's an invisible man with a beard up in the sky...
Rest assured there are spiritual individuals, "Christians" included who are not simply...illogical. Some understand that the bible was written in figurative imagery, and that just because it is "worded" that the universe was created in a "weekend"...might not be as literal as some believe.
Though that's disputed. It gets somewhat old

Following a religion is your own personal spirituality. It completes a person. You don't have to delve into a world of hypocricy and idiocy. Religion if it's studied as a philosophy becomes much deeper than that.

Take care,
Ryu

[Newbie]

Replayer

"There have been some important research breakthroughs to support your “Scientific” Creationist positions."

My "Scientific" Creationist positions? Where exactly did I apply the word scientific as an adjective to describe my belief in Creationism? Exactly how many times do I have to repeat myself on this issue? I do not believe that Creationism is a valid science at this point in time, and am absolutely opposed to any government sponsorship of it's teachings on the grounds that I feel that this would be a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state.
Are you implying that a rebuttal of the viewpoints of other individuals that do believe that Creationism is a scientifically proven fact is somehow detrimental to my arguments?

Mr. Miyagi

"Last but not least, noone will ever convince me that the earth was created 6000 years ago and that the whole universe was created within the same week."

I find this statement particularly interesting. You freely admit that "no one will ever convince" you. I have been portrayed as dogmatic and closed-minded throughout this thread. Yet I have never once stated anyhting such as "No one will ever convince me that Evolution is a scientifically valid theory."

Eazy E

"Pitdog is right - go to the library and check out the scientific research on carbon dating, fossil remains, etc.."

I have been to the library and researched the topic on my own.

Pit Dog

Just for entertainment, I will throw out some wild guesses in an attempt to answer your questions. Now, before I start, I would like to repeat that I do not consider Creationism to be a proven fact, or even a scientific theory. Is it speculative? Yes. Is it falsifiable? No. Are the results replicable? Only by the divine creator himself.

1. "in :15, :16, and :17 of Genesis it says God made the "lights" for earth. The greater light for day, the lesser for the night. Um, Newbie ... the moon is not a "light" ... it but reflects the sun."

The amount of illumination(light) mankind received at night could be construed as "the lesser" in comparison to the amount of ilumination(light) mankind receives from the sun during the day.

"So there truly is only one "light," the sun ... the moon is just a reflector of it ... but of course uneducated primitives would know this then they composed the Bibble."

So, there truly is more than one "light", but of course an uneducated primitive such as yourself wouldn't have known this when you composed your post.

"However, if the Bibble was "divinely inspired" shouldn't GOD have at least inspired more accuracy in his writings? Please explain this error of fact."

Considering the confusion caused by even the simplistic version among people such as yourself, perhaps he did not wish to complicate it any more than necessary, especially considering the fact that he was presenting it to "uneducated primitives".

2. "Could you explain further the manner in which God created Adam "out of the dust" and "breathed life into his nostrils?" I am curious to understand the methodology of this feat so that perhaps it could be repeated through experiment."

I believe that the almighty God can do anything he pleases, and is capable of using methods which a mere human such as myself is incapable of understanding. As far as replication of the results, only the almighty himself is capable. That is one of the reasons we Creationists consider him the almighty.

3. "Also, I would like to understand why this same procedure couldn't be repeated with Eve ... why Adam's RIB was necessary to add to the dust to create Eve ... and I would like a full write-up on the methodology here too."

As a peripheral point, the only thing that has been ascertained is that the same procedure WASN'T repeated with Eve. When you use the word "couldn't", you are making an assumption. As far as guessing at God's possible reasoning in using Adam's rib to create Eve, I can only specualte that he wished to create a companion for Adam that had been created from part of his own body.

4. "Also, I am curious how the serpent in the Garden of Eden formed the power of speech to entice Eve. Could you please explain how the anatomy of a serpent's tongue and throat could be formed to speak ... and especially how it could hear Eve's reply ... as snakes are DEAF and DUMB. If you are going to cop out of this assininity by saying the serpent was "possessed by the Devil" ... then please give a detailed explanation of how one "takes possession" of another's body."

You do realize that an inability on the part of humans to take posession of another body does not in any way rule out the possibilty that an angel, such as Satan, may understand the procedure and be fully capable of performing it.

5. "Next there is the issue of Cain and Abel. Now Adam and Eve bore Cain and Abel, right? I got that part down OK. Then Cain slew poor Abel and was driven into the land of Nod where he knew his wife. Um ... Newbie ... where the f*ck did his wife come from? I though Adam and Eve were *it* and they had Can and Abel. OK? So please give me a full write-up as to what the hell this new broad is doing in the story, how she got there, and who her parents were."

Cain married his sister. God did not object to the marriage because the only females in the world at the time were either his mother or a female sibling. If you read the Bible, you will realize that the only conceptions recorded in the genealogical parts of Genesis were those of male children.


So, there you have it. The best non-scientific, wild speculation I could think of off the top of my head after work without reference materials, I am in the process of moving and am sitting in an empty apartment, for the sole benefit of yourself. I'm sure you'll have fun attacking it's lack of scientific merit, as though this is in some way a rebuttal of my criticisms of evolutionary theory. By the way, why do you keep using the word "Bibble", I don't believe that I have erroneously mispelled the word Bible in any of my posts?

To everyone:

Why are my religious beliefs, which I have not presented as a scientific theory, relevant to my criticisms of evolutionary thoery? Why is my inability to scientifically prove Creationism construed as a rebuttal of my criticisms of evoution?
What if I were an atheist? What questions would I then have to answer in order to have my viewpoints, morality, and intellectual capacity respected? Would my questions then be taken at face value, as evolutionists would be incapable of attemptimg to discredit me as a "bible thumper" or "non-thinking sub-human" and insists that I answer for every incident of improper behavior ever comitted by anyone in the name of the religion I choose to follow? Should my criticisms of evolutionary theory be treated any differently on the basis of my religious beliefs when I have made no attempt to use them as evidence?
Instead, I believe that my religious beliefs should be left out of the discussion as long as I am not attempting to use them to validate my points.


[Edited by Newbie on 11-22-2000 at 05:08 AM]

[Joe Manco]

Newbie:
You're trying to give us all a hand-job here. Either that, or you're every bit as stupid as you sound.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Mr. Miyagi]

Newbie, my question please. How's this for you? It will take very strong facts and arguments to convince me that the earth was created 6000 years ago and the universe was created within the same week. Now....I'd like to know why you choose your faith the way you do.

[Newbie]

Mr. Miyagi

"It will take very strong facts and arguments to convince me that the earth was created 6000 years ago and the universe was created within the same week"

Congratulations for deciding to look at the subject with a more open mind than before.
As far as my religious beliefs in Creationism are concerned, I have never presented them as anyhting other than a matter of religious faith, a faith which the information I have been exposed to in regards to evolutionary theory in both my educational experiences and private investigation has so far been insuffiecient to convince is false and compel me to renounce.
Note additionally that I have made no attempts to force others to swear adherence to these beliefs. I have not insulted, ridiculed, condemmed, or in any other way pressured anyone to do so. I have respected the will of others to make, based on the mental faculty and free mind with which they were endowed by their creator, their own choice and have expressed merely disagreement with their opinions even when faced with the contempt which has been sometimes been directed at my own.

I am very much looking forward to any information on your viewpoints regarding Radioactive Dating Methodology after you review the topic, which you expressed interest in doing in your earlier post. I hope that we can continue to discuss this issue in a positive manner.

[Edited by Newbie on 11-22-2000 at 01:43 PM]

[Ronin]

Newbie:

Let me try to explain this to you without insulting you...

There is no evidence for Creationism. It is a myth, based on an overly-literal interpretation of the Bible.

There is LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of evidence for Evolution, which a more informed person could display for you, and some already have. You can either choose to believe it, or to ignore it; it is entirely up to you. Until I see evidence of a better theory, Evolution has my vote.

Now, if Jesus appeared to me on a flaming pie and explained to me in great technical detail how his Dad created the universe in six days, then I would listen.

Do you have his cell-phone number? ;