G.W. Bush's Creationist beliefs

[judo guy]

Atomic,

You are right. I don't usually get involved in debates like this, though I sometimes read them for amusement. I just wanted to clarify where the statement about the sun shrinking came from.

[david a]

Hi, back again.
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Ok , fair enough, I was a little pressumptious on this point. I would like to know your opinion on this matter though, How old do you believe the universe to be.
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I don't think the jury is out on this question. There is good evidence to support a 10,000+ year and also a couple of million years old. I just read an article in Time recently where science now estimates the earth to be 14,000,000 years old.
I lean towards a younger earth but like I said, the jury is not out on this for me.

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I am sorry, I still don't see it. I've read it again and it says Joseph not Mary; am I reading this incorrectly?
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o.k here is a few points to consider.

1. Luke says Heli is Jesus grandfather. Matthew says Jacob is. Further more, both lines trace Christ to David, each is through a different son of David. Matthew says Solomon, while Luke says Nathan.
2. Luke doesn't say he is giving Jesus' geneology through Joseph. Note he says that Jesus was "as was supposed" the son of Joseph, while He was actually the son of Mary.
3. Luke's record of Mary's geneology fits with his interest as doctor in mothers and birth and with his emphasis on women in his Gospel account.
4. Luke, unlike Matthew, includes no women in his geneology-including Mary herself. Joseph was the son of Heli by marriage(Heli had no sons of his own)and thus is named in luke as the representative of Mary's generation.
5. In Matthew 1:16 it should be noted that throughout the geneology begat was used until you get to Joseph. The pronoun "whom" is singular referring to Mary alone. In comparison you will see that "Jacob begot Joseph" in Matthew, while "Joseph was the 'son' of Heli (only by marriage)in Luke.

Hope this helps.

[jungwoo]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering what the latest theory concerning the extinction of dinosaurs is?

[david a]

There was no room for them in Noah's ark so they drowned...

[jungwoo]

no room?

I believe I have heard a theory similar to that one before. The only problem with it, is that there was room on the ark for dinosaurs and dinosaurs did go into the ark.

[ILONGGO]

David, just out of curiousity: why is it that you're allowed to take everything literally on everything else in the bible and yet not on this genealogy part? Seems like hypocritical to change whenever the need arises.
Also, in regards with languages, I believe it evolves also. There are slangs from the 1800s that we wouldn't have a clue what it meant. During Jesus' times, don't you think they'd have terms that are only known to them at that time. I'm sure you know that Jerusalem was a melting pot in those days. Phoenicians, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc. were all over the places. What I'm trying to get across is, with the translation of the bible from what it was originally written, don't you think a lot was lost along the way therefore it's hard to take some of it literally? Just curious...

[Newbie]

ILLONGO

"Also, in regards with languages, I believe it evolves also."

There is a difference between changing and evolving. Actually, I have been told that they are degenerating. I studied German for a while from an individual who himself had studied Linguistics in college, specializing in many ancient languages such as Latin, Hebrew, and Greek. He told me that modern languages, such as English, Spanish, and German, are crude and inaccurate when compared to the languages of ancient times.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Main theory on dinosaurs is an asteroid that destroyed 95% of life on the earth.

They're close to proving this. Scary thing is that this can and will happen again.

[penguinman000]

Just an interesting note for you all...Charles Darwin(the father of the evolution school of thought..) himself called "Evolution the worst mistake of my life". Hmmmmmm.........

[david a]

Jungwoo and Ilonggo,

My apologies, it was really late(check the post time), and I was very tired and made a lousy troll, period.

Ryu, The meteorite theory is a well know theory, but has many flaws.
1. If a meteorite crashed with such devestating magnitude, how do we explain other large mammals, insects, plant life, birds, crocodiles, etc. all surviving? Surely there would be many dinosaurs still in existance that we read of in our biology books.
2. The evidence used for this theory largely relies on a clay with metal(iridium) found in our earth that asteroides have in them. The probem with this is that iridium is also found from volcanic erruptions as well. Also, this metal is buried within tons of layers of hardened mud and sand. This points out to a much larger devastation(ie. a world wide flood). This is believed due to a conclusion that these animals show evidence of being buried at a very short time period.

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If great pockets of water burst from the earth, as Genisis account indicates, this would certainly trigger massive volcanic erruptions and great shifts creating earth quakes.

Oh, but many dinosaur bones are fossilized, you say...

Interestingly, fossilization can occur vert quickly if all the conditions are right. (Example: quick burial, water, and the right minerals) conditions of the flood then are very ideal.
Researchers have found that chicken bones and wood can be replaced with minerals in just five to ten years. A big dinosaur bone might take hundreds of years to completely mineralize. It all depends on the burial conditions over the years. Many dinosaur remains are still not completely turned in to rock. More than half of the fossil is still original bone, not stone! Some even have chemicals from the living animals (proteins and amino acids)! Some fish fossils still have a fishy smell when first uncovered.
Some of the plants buried during the Flood are not fossilized either. In New Jersey, large amounts of wood from trees that were growing at the same time as dinosaurs can be found in the dirt (Cretaceous clay). They are preserved, but not turned to stone at all. In England, fragile plant hairs and tiny details of the plant's cells can be seen. The plants are not turned into rock. They are just flattened and blackened. If this is true, a world wide flood may-be plausible, and would certainly support a young earth theory.

Did dinosaurs enter the ark, as Jungwoo has suggested? Probably, since the book of Job dated after the flood suggests dinosaurs in existence. It would be illogical to suggest that Noah grabbed the biggest example of a dinosaur species, but rather took in newly born dinosaurs for sake of room.

Also, if a world wide flood occured, many of the earths resources(ie. forests) would have been distroyed, causing a lack of living conditions suitable for these behemoths.
Also, it is understood that dinosaurs are not the only species to become extinct since the flood. In the last 350 years alone, almost 400 species have disappeared. Today, some experts claim that one or more species of plants and animals may be lost every day.

Lastly, man may be the main cause of dinosaur extinction.
Look at the mastadons and behemoths that were wiped out by hunters and the ever increasing poaching, etc.even done today in other countries.

Hope this helps.

[david a]

Penguinman,

Just curious where you found that statement by Darwin.
Never seen it before.

[penguinman000]

I found it in one the Uncle John's Bathroom reader's series. Great books. Packed full of trivia..

[david a]

Penguinman,

Just wondering what your views are on creation, the Bible, and God. Haven't talked to you before on this forum - just curious.

[penguinman000]

I belive God is a sceintist.

Just cuz the bible dosen't spell out everything(i.e. not mentioning dinosaurs) dosen't mean they weren't around. At the time folks were writing these Gospel's things were tough enough without the Lord making things even tougher on these people by revealing fantastic things about dinosaurs... Just my opinion and I'm not a bible scholar.

[Eazy-E]

david a

That was a great one about the dinosaurs drowning b/c there wasnt room for them in Noah's Ask!!

Good sense of humor.

E