Would Bruce Lee win UFC fights had he been still alive and willing to compete?

[FUH-Q]

ok, first.....lee did study grappling before he died, but he only got his feet in. if you read his book and look at his notes you will see notes about him training grappling. i didnt go to that bruce lee biography page because who knows who wrote it and what doese it matte; he wrote about grappling in the tao of jeet kune do. at this point it doesnt matter because its all just opinion, however i think judging from what ive seen in his book and notes that have been published that he would have incorporated groundfighting into jkd.

that being said i think bruce lee is quite possibly the greatest martial artist ever to live; not because he was a badass but because he was the first one to take all the best things he could find from other martial arts and combine them into one form. was he an amazing fighter.....yes........was he end all be all baddest m-fer in the world....probably not; we will never know.

but lets all remember, for the majority of all of us if it wasnt for lee we would either not be studying martial arts or we would be studying that crap they pawn off at those tkd and kempo schools (crap in a actual fighting sense, its great if you want more tradition and spiritual sense). if it wasnt for lee martial arts in america would be VERY different, we would probobly not have a ufc and then most of us would have no idea what bjj is. so in one way or another we all owe lee a little (at least) gratitude and respect.

i know that if i had never trained at a jkd school and expierienced a thai kick and an armbar that i would still think that shotokan was still the sh!t. again, im saying hes the best martial artist ever, not because of his ability, but because of his contributions to hand-tohand combat as we know it today.

[Maui Jim]

There where 1000's of people taking the best even before Bruce did so that doesn't give ACTOR Bruce any credit.
Just because he had a platform to be listen to don't make him shit.

Even today there are many that aren't in Pride or UFC that can wipe the floor with any of them.

Just as bad are actors that get into politics and have it easier because of there connection to the entertainment industry.
To the point they have a new name for them: Politainers.

If it wasn't for Bruce shit doesn't fly because someone else would have taken the credit because it was only time before east meet west in so many ways including the Martial arts.

[FUH-Q]

ok, sorry, i didnt specify.........bruce lee was the first one to combine the different arts and ACTUALLY teach them and get the word out. he was the first one to throw out all the traditional crap and modify all the moves for street value and actually teach and bring to the mainstream. he was the first one to bring all of this to mainstream america. 1000s of others huh......name me some. the reason nobody will know any of the names you will throw out (thats assuming you can actually come up with one of the 1000s) is because they didnt do anything with it. bruce lee was a fighter and an instructor before he was an actor. it is a hard thing to do to go to an mma competition and not feel his influence.

maui.....you are very misinformed and/or naive if you actually believe that bruce lee wasnt a great fighter. im not saying hes the martial arts god, but i have trained under his students and considering most of them will tell you he blew them out of the water says a lot.


btw- maui, im curious as to what style(s) you train.

[IPON]

FUH-Q - I understand your points, the greatest to ever live is a little strong and I am a big Lee fan. The most influential martial artist yes I don't think there should be an argument.

But remember, ground fighting cam after sparring sessions with Judo gene LaBelle. Bruce and Ed Parker had a relationship of sharing Ideas and Ed Parkers Kenpo was not so traditional he used new concepts. There is a lot that contributed to Le trying to find his way.

And regarding BJJ Lee had nothing to do with the evolution to present. area sports are part of the human conditionHelio Gracie was having challege matches in the 1950s bruce was still sucking on a pacifier. But I think I understand that you are saying becuase of his media hype about MA it allowed something like UFC to be accepted....I wouldn't disagree with that

Here are the questions that I have:


1. If Lee went to UFC would it be the 1st or current version or it would not matter. I don't think he would participate but if he did I think only the 1st version less rules


2. If Lee decided to fight in the 1st version do you think tehy would have let him fight. I say this becuase it was rumored that the Gracies would not let the best MAs fight in the UFC. the reason is speculation

Just stimulating conversation

[Maui Jim]

OK I'm dating myself here, I trained with Jimmy H. Woo in El Monte in the original school in the 70's on ward and he was very innovating with the use of Kung Fu San Soo and this style incorporate everything.
Jimmy knew Bruce as far back to when he was a boy and knew he was full of shit then.
Jimmy did a yearly demo downtown china town and Bruce never did any demonstrations at the time and Jimmy would get in his face as he got into the Hollywood crowd about never joining in.
Plus the many instructors and students where common to innovate cross training even then.
Latter I began BBJ after needing more specialized understanding of ground fighting.
California is shit now so I move to paradise 10 yrs ago where I'll stay.

[FUH-Q]

i wasnt saying that lee is responsible for bjj or that he already knew it. i only said that he had trained it (though very litte) and understood its effectiveness.

i give him credit for spreading bjj because even though the gracies have been challenging for years it wasnt mainstream until ufc; and i dont believe something like ufc would have come about for a long time if not for lees' influence.

i will answer your question with a couple of my own.......what time period is this hypothetical ufc?

if its in the 60s do you think that bjj was as good as it is today?

if its today, do you think that lee wouldnt have trained much more bjj considering its popularity and since it would have 30-40 more years to be refined?

considering his extreme speed how many groundfighters could shoot in on him and stay concious?

he did study the clinch and was proficiant in it, so i think that would come into play.

i do think he would compete and do very well in a ufc.......he didnt compete because in his lifetime there were no nhb competitions for him to compete.

[Maui Jim]

Did you see the pathetic attempt in the beginning of "Enter the Dragon" where Bruce tries an armbar (lol)

[IPON]

My bad...I didn't mean a hypotheticlly UFC I just meant which version would Lee have preferred the 1st started by teh Gracies
(circa 1993) or the current version with weight callses and more rules.

Lee never trained in BJJ, Lee trained mainly in Judo with Judo with Gene LaBell and I believe Wally Jay (don't quote me though). The Creation of the UFC has nothing to do with Lee, it was 100% marketing and ego of the Gracies. Lee cannot be associeted with its development. If Lee did not exist there still would have been teh same UFC. That's like saying if slim shady didn't rap there would be no ssuch thing as an MC battle

I would think that BJJ is more refined since the 60s. Actually, I do not think that Bruce would have trained in BJJ at least not to the extent that you currently see. Lee knew the value of ground fighting afetr exposure to it, but I definatley do not think he was or tried to be a grappler. I think he wanted to know the other side to defend against it, but it is not secret his strenght was on his feet.

Actually, it was not an issue of NHB being availble, I think the issue was rules Lee wanted none. he knew that when you have rules you have strategy. he could be beat often in the ring because of a bell, ref stop this or that, this move is not legal etc. The sam e person he may have lost to he knew he could take them in the alley and beat the piss out of them. And if there is one thing we can probably agree on is that Lee did not like to loose.

[FUH-Q]

where in cali do you live......im in la.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Sean Dempsey

Even the Dragon himself admits he'd most assuradly face defeat against that mere boxer.
.

"mere"? wtf?

[FUH-Q]

"If Lee did not exist there still would have been teh same UFC. That's like saying if slim shady didn't rap there would be no ssuch thing as an MC battle "

i disagree, lee brought into mainstream usa martial arts......had he not done that americans would not be nearly as accepting or wanting a martial arts competition. if americans were not as interested in martial arts would the gracies have been able to get the ufc funded and marketed......i think not. thats not to say that martial arts wouldnt have eventually become popular, but it would have come much later.
also, i think your analogy is flawed. i think a better one would be if there were no run dmc there would not be such thing as a mc battle......which isnt really correct.

[FUH-Q]

"Actually, it was not an issue of NHB being availble, I think the issue was rules Lee wanted none. he knew that when you have rules you have strategy. he could be beat often in the ring because of a bell, ref stop this or that, this move is not legal etc. The sam e person he may have lost to he knew he could take them in the alley and beat the piss out of them. And if there is one thing we can probably agree on is that Lee did not like to loose."

that paragraph seems a little contradictory to me. nhb is no rules.....with the exception of things like eye gouges and biting ect......which i think lee would have been ok with.

there wasnt anything like that while lee was alive.


also, maui, not trying to be an a-hole but did jimmy woo ever compete in any kind of nhb (karate tournys and demonstrations dont count) that you crack on lee for not doing.

[Maui Jim]

The explosion of the Martial arts would have been lead by many of his same time, Jackie Chan, Jim Kelly; all of it came at the same time as the Music revolution, Spiritual revolution.

Someone will always come to the for front no matter the subject and interest.
Don't need to be a Hollywood actor leading the way.
So **** the dead man that gets famous, get over it!

[IPON]

FUH-Q - Not contradctory, NHB cpmpetitions like UFC PRIDE K1, have a lot of rules beyond just eye and groin gouging. The only true NHB competition was the original UFC which still had a lot of rules but significatly less the the current competitions. IMHO, Lee would not want any restrictions. But I agre there really were not any NHB compettions as we see now during his time.

I said this on another post when Lee was asked about fighting Ali "If I fight him in the ring (boxing rules) he would beat me, if I fought him in the street (no rules) I would beat hgim badly.


Regarding the anaolgy the direction of my analogy was past to present, i.e. gracie challenge is to Bruce Lee as mic battle is to M&M.

But we are on the same page, I stated before that I would agree the influence of Lee helped to create the evironment for a NHB event like UFC to happen.

[FUH-Q]

ok, i think were close enough to pretty mich agree.......

the thing with eminem is wrong because eminem came after the mc battle; where as lee came before mainstream martial arts (at least in america).