Who are the most overrated fighters?

[jules]

I don't care what Royce said back then, he doesn't say that now. It's one little comment he made, probably out of gratefullness to his brother for helping him train. And it's turned into one of the most repeated comments I've ever heard.

"Mike Sloan: Alright, alright, I gotcha. Okay, here's a question that I'm sure you've been asked hundreds of times. Out of all the Gracies who have ever fought, who is the best? Is Rickson really the best Gracie? Out of them all; you, Renzo, Rickson, Rorion, Royler, who is the best?

Royce Gracie: I would say Rickson. People don't see much of his fights, people don't see much of him. But if you ever walk up to him- No, actually, I would have to say my father is the best! Excuse, it's not Rickson, it's my father, man! Out of the Gracies, I would have to say my father. The things that he did weighing only 135 pounds and beating guys twice his size and fighting for 3 hours and 45 minutes. You see, fighting with no rules, no rounds, no time limits and being only that size and taking on guys much bigger than him. I would say my father because of the whole thing that he created."
[/quote]

[jules]

http://www.sherdog.com/interviews/gracie_royce_02/gracie_02.htm

[jules]

Rickson Gracie (best fighter among Helio's sons; currenting competing in Brazil and Japan)

This is from Carlson Gracie Jr's website. If you have not noticed he does not like Helio or his sons.

[smith&wesson]

There's nothing to say against family spirit. Nevertheless it makes me nervous when Royce always mentions his; sounds it is his universum.
The world is much bigger. A four hour fight does not really impress me cos it was another time. At the beginning of boxing they boxed till the oppenent couldn't stand up anymore (and they boxed without gloves; no danger to break someone's head but you could easily break your hand). Have they been better boxers than the new champions that fight three minutes with a pause after that? Of course not.
Sometimes I think Royce could be a bit more open for fighters that do not belong to his family.

[Heel-hook]

SHamrock beat Guys like Funaki twice, Rutten Twice, Mo smith, Matt hume, Brian Johnston just to name some. He beat severn, and dominated Royce although the fight was ruled a draw.

If anyone should go on there, its Frank Shamrock. He claims to be the best in the world, but only fights Tomato cans.

[smith&wesson]

I agree. The submissions of Frank Shamrock are great and short. But they were great and short cos the opponents were amateurs. Not able to defend.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
Rickson is overrated because he carries a legendary 'unbeaten' rep, but he hasn't really every competed against legit fighters.

Your dislike of Rickson is becoming obnoxious now. Time and again I have seen your post on how you think Rickson is over rated. It's getting boring; it's almost like you are jealous of him or something.

To say Funaki isn't a legit fighter is just pure refined ignorance. The guy has fought and beat some of the best in the world, and you still call him that. That's just lame...

Why don't you do some research on who Funaki has fought and beat. Maybe you will be a bit kinder in your choice of words. But seeing how most of your post have a strong taste of spite in them, I doubt it.

It is true that the quote Royce has said about Rickson has been repeated time and again to the point of it being irritating. But there is a reason why it is said over and over again. Because it is so damn profound! Many people concider Sakuraba to be one of the best fighters in the world, along with myself might I add. Now, people like to ridicule Funaki for being a Pro Wrestler and how Rickson accepted a match from a Pro Wrestler. Guess what?

Sakuraba is a Pro Wreslter!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Most fighters that are Japanese ARE Pro Wreslters with a few Shooto guys and other random fighting sytles here and there.

Last weekend I bought Pride 10 for the reason of watching the Renzo Saku fight. I saw nothing in that fight that would say to me "Wow, Saku could be Rickson, and that's why he is ducking it." In fact, I don't think Saku could beat Rickson on his best day. I have seen a lot of Rickson fights, and a lot of Saku fights. I am truly a Saku fan and think of him as a wonderful fighter with a hell of a lot of carisma. I study Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and swear my life to it, but even still, the point of me saying my feelings of respect for Saku is an atempt to show I am not byas to the art. I just haven't seen how he could beat Rickson. But that, is my opinion.

However, what isn't is Rickson myriad of fights and achivments. What else isn't is the fact the Funaki was a dangerious oponent. Learn about Funaki before you label him so. Other wise, you will just continue to sound distatsfuly ignorant to people who actualy follow MMA.

[grubbogoppoly]

I vote thai bri.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Mr. Heel Hook, you're just another Gracie ass licker. Funaki may be a legit fighter, but he's not a champ of anything, nor was he at the time Rickson fought him. He won some matches in Pancrase before those guys knew how to fight, you actually think he could fight Frank Shamrock if they faced each other now? Of course not!!!!
That is Rickson's only legit fight. Everything else is hearsay and for years he's been dodging real fighters and champions. He's not really a part of MMA, nor has he been for about ten years.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a Rickson thread, that's why I said in my original post I'd rather not discuss it. What do you think of the other guys, and who else would you say is overrated?

[jules]

He won some matches in Pancrase before those guys knew how to fight...

according to your logic Royce Gracie should not be rated highly but you seem to have no trouble putting him on high regard.

[Mr. Miyagi]

This wasn't meant to be another Rickson thread but of course all you jock riders had to take the bait to lick Gracie ass.

Royce came back and fought in the Pride Grand Prix, facing someone who was considered the top middleweight in the world at the time, someone who fought top guys and beat them regularly.

It doesn't matter who is better, Rickson or Royce, but Rickson is overrated because he hasn't done much MMA. Rickson could be the best fighter in the world, but he hasn't fought the best MMA fighters so it doesn't matter. Royce has and will fight again in the future.

Rickson could have at least fought a bjj match with Wallid for heaven's sake.

You guys are passionately defending someone who has fought one legitimate opponent in the last ten years.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

...Ass...licker? Man, I lick ass because I disagree with you AND DEFEND MY ART!? Christ, whatever will I do...

Wait, I had this made this for you dude...

http://www.mrmiyagi.youarelame.com/

[adacas]

damn that was funny lol

[NHBMARK1]

I've said this before & I will ground & pound til it's understood.

Rickson is without a doubt the most overated mma fighter in history.

He hasn't fought anybody of quality, not one.

He'll look great against all you blue belts out there at a seminar & I'm sure he's a very good (maybe even great bjj stylist)
but come on people 400 & 0? Bullshit!
Name more than 6 fights.

So he's 40+, big deal.
Randy Couture is 40 & he whipped 27 (or so) year old Tito.

Rickson,
Stop bitching about $, stop with the rules, blah, blah
just fight!

Ken Shamrock is much the same.
Never won a tournemant & somehow he's in superfights?
It was all about a "look" with him. A good fighter, but not a great one.

Thoughts???

[Mr. Miyagi]

I couldn't agree with you more NHBMARK1. I guess some people are more gullable about certain things, including Rickson. I train in bjj too, so I guess it's just as much my art as it is yours, Heel Hook. I may as well be one of the blue belts that he smacks around in a seminar, but I'm judging him on what he does in the elite MMA world. I'm flattered that you took the time to set up that page in my honor.

Frank Shamrock said that Rickson's rep was "all publicity and crap".

Ditto on Shamrock. I consider him much more overrated than Rickson. Rickson at least is a conditioned athlete, a great martial artist at his style, and a nice guy. Can't say anything for Sham. His technique is crude, his heart is questionable, his conditioning is questionable, he can bench press a lot, and he has the look.