is muay thai really that good

[True $chool]

what a great quote.

[sihing]

Well, practiced seriously under a good arjarn/khruu ( master/teacher in thai) Muay Thai is quite devastating. Thai boxers are among the most feared fighters. Why? Well, in Thailand a thaiboxer starts training at the age of 5-6, and the training is very hard. You live and train in a camp. At 6 am they start running (cuz it gets really hot during the day), then they will practice with the bags and with a partner until 12. Training starts again around 15 until 18, with techniques, conditioning, sparring.....All this for 5/6 days a week, and the young boxers can have their first full-contact match at the age of 12. You can imagine how srtong they will be at 18! In western countries Muay Thai fighters are not that good, but of course there are exceptions. Thai boxers train and fight for a living, to have three bowls of rice a day, and later they can get more, depending on how good they become. But there is more: they fight for their camp and for their master, and a victory is of course an honour. In USA and Europe there is no such a thing, and I think that is the main difference. But I think you will be more interested in Muay Boran, the thai martial art from where Muay Thai comes. Muay Thai is a sport, a very violent sport where Muay Boran techniques cannot be used. It is an art that was used in war, and there are many more devastatind techniques. There are forms too, but they are very different from Gong-Fu forms. In the movie Ong-Bak you can see some of these techniques, the leading actor is very strong and had a long training in Muay Boran. Or you can check this website www.muaythai.it or www.muayboranengland.co.uk

Hi,
Just a quick comment about this. I'm a Wing Chun instructor, been in the art for 16yrs now, and yes Muay Thai is a devastating art, but like mentioned above, in Thailand the boxers there start training at the age of 5 or 6 and train all day all the time until their mid-late 20's right. If I did the same thing in WC, started when I was 6 then kept up that same training intensity, then what do you think would happen. You see, questions like "How good is Muay Thai" and responses like the above have nothing to do with each other. Anyone that practiced and trained from that early an age with that type of intensity in most any Martial Art will be a tough fighter. So then what makes an art effective? Well efficiency and effective techniques and concepts do, not how tough one is or how in shape they are, because if for one reason or another they can't train anymore then how good a fighter will they be. If a art is based on strength, speed, toughness, stamina, all physical attributes and any of those attributes are taken away then the art crumbles, then the art is not effective on it's own. IMO Wing Chun is not a art that is based on physical attributes like the above, although one does need to have some of the above to make any art work, but the average person without any disabilities already has enough of those when they walk into learn a art, but a art based on skill attributes and techniques that don't rely on the individuals own abilities and attributes but work out right on their own. This way as we all age the movements and technique will not break down due to less strength or speed by the practitioner.


James

https://www.wingchun-canada.com

[jubaji]

start training at the age of 5 or 6 and train all day all the time until their mid-late 20's right. If I did the same thing in WC, started when I was 6 then kept up that same training intensity, then what do you think would happen. m[/url]

It's not the start at age 5, it's the live, competitive testing that makes fighters tougher than dojang dancers. Starting early doesn't hurt of course...

15 years of dojo samba will make a nice hobby, but time alone won't add the 'tough'.

[sihing]

It's not the start at age 5, it's the live, competitive testing that makes fighters tougher than dojang dancers. Starting early doesn't hurt of course...

15 years of dojo samba will make a nice hobby, but time alone won't add the 'tough'.

Yes, but live competitive testing can be applied to all arts, not just Muay Thai, again this is not what would make an "Art" effective, but more of what makes a "Practitioner" effective. The original question on this thread was "Is Muay Thai Really that good?" To say that only Muay Thai fighters do this type of training is also incorrect, know one knows what happens in other kwoons unless you train there and even then you don't know exactly what one is doing concerning their private training. Students see me in the WC school all the time teaching and performing other duties, but they don't know what I do concerning training/practicing outside of the school.

My point in my response was that can all people use Muay Thai for fighting? If the requirement is they have to go through rigorious training procedures for years upon years, and keep that up throughout their participation in the art to make it work, then that art is not effective, because once the training stops the art's effectiveness is gone. If one learns a MA and trains hard in it for the beginning years to learn and absorb everything about the art and then decreases the intensity of the training but still maintains skill, then that is a more effective MA IMO.

If a champion Muay Thai fighter in his prime, say 19-20yrs old, hurts his back somehow, can he still use his art to fight, will the art fail him or allow him to adapt and still be a effective fighter?

James

[MAfans]

I saw a match between a wrestler and a american thai boxer in the beginning of the UFC, I'm not saying that Muy thai Sucks but it was funny so see the mt guy get smashed with 2 german supplex.

[jubaji]

If a champion Muay Thai fighter in his prime, say 19-20yrs old, hurts his back somehow, can he still use his art to fight, will the art fail him or allow him to adapt and still be a effective fighter?

James

If you throw your back out, you are shit out of luck no matter what 'art' you study!

[sihing]

Not really. Most MA require athletisism, twisting, turning, crouching down etc...IMO WC does require nearly as much athleticism as the other MA, we have taught lots of people with bad backs, bad anything and they still are able to use it, even disabled people in wheelchairs..

James

[Tee Sok]

Hi,
Just a quick comment about this. I'm a Wing Chun instructor, been in the art for 16yrs now, and yes Muay Thai is a devastating art, but like mentioned above, in Thailand the boxers there start training at the age of 5 or 6 and train all day all the time until their mid-late 20's right. If I did the same thing in WC, started when I was 6 then kept up that same training intensity, then what do you think would happen. You see, questions like "How good is Muay Thai" and responses like the above have nothing to do with each other. Anyone that practiced and trained from that early an age with that type of intensity in most any Martial Art will be a tough fighter. So then what makes an art effective? Well efficiency and effective techniques and concepts do, not how tough one is or how in shape they are, because if for one reason or another they can't train anymore then how good a fighter will they be. If a art is based on strength, speed, toughness, stamina, all physical attributes and any of those attributes are taken away then the art crumbles, then the art is not effective on it's own. IMO Wing Chun is not a art that is based on physical attributes like the above, although one does need to have some of the above to make any art work, but the average person without any disabilities already has enough of those when they walk into learn a art, but a art based on skill attributes and techniques that don't rely on the individuals own abilities and attributes but work out right on their own. This way as we all age the movements and technique will not break down due to less strength or speed by the practitioner.


James
www.wingchun-canada.com

True, I agree. I was just pointing out the differences there are between the training in Thailand and the one in Europe/USA and the big skill differences these bring. But what counts in Thailand is the true sense of respect and total devotion to the camp/Arjarn, which are part of the strong buddhist backround the thais have in their everyday life. This is a thing we do not have in western countries (of course there are people who train hard and seriously) and it gives the thais something more I think.
Just like the old Shaolin monks or those of the Wu Tang temple: they had a very high level in MA because of the intense body and mind training routines they performed, and they had a strong spiritual backround too.
It is also true that the phisical attributes, stamina and strength alone cannot make a MA effective, but they help. I mean look at Bruce Lee: his level in WC and later in JKD was very high, and yet he considered working out as an essential part of his training ("But if you are talking about fighting, as it is-with no rules-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body".). And of course he highly considered the mental and spiritual aspects of his art and he always followed it principles. And those make the difference between the various MA and give each stronger and weaker points. That's why Bruce Lee understood the importance of keeping an open mind and of cross-training.

[sihing]

When Bruce fought Wong Jak Man he got winded because apparently he had to chase him around the room, because Wong was running away from him. Then Bruce got disappointed about how bad his cardio and overall conditioning was and that the fight lasted about 3 minutes. I really don't understand why Bruce would feel this way, if the person really wanted to fight and/or hurt you why would they run away? But it was a catalist for Bruce's transformation and the rest is history.

James

[jubaji]

Not really. Most MA require athletisism, twisting, turning, crouching down etc...IMO WC does require nearly as much athleticism as the other MA, we have taught lots of people with bad backs, bad anything and they still are able to use it,

James

This kind of crap is why some ma lose credibility.

[sihing]

Do Thai Boxer's hit hard objects with their shins? Why? Maybe to toughen the shin or numb it from pain? Can damage be done by doing things like this for long periods of time? How long can one keep on doing this realistically, and or how long do I have to keep on doing this activitiy to be effective in that art? How many normal people can or even would attempt training like this? If you don't toughen or numb the shins then you wouldn't be kicking like the Thai's right, you wouldn't be able to handle the pain of making bone on bone contact with someone else. So therefore you require something that is not naturally there as a brand new person entering a school to learn. Wing Chun doesn't require toughening of the limbs(although it does have a wooden dummy form that will toughen the arms but tough arms are not a prerequisite or requirement to apply the art in real situations)to make it work effectively. You can be tough as nails, kick or punch faster than lightning but if you do it in a uneffective or unefficient way then you have nothing against someone that has a real skill and knowledge of proper biomechanical movements, based on logic and the science of movement.

James

[EmptyneSs]

if u look at vanderlei silva, and some of the people on his team, they use muay thai as there main style, and they are fucking devastating. their style is just so aggressive and brutal, they just smash through opponents. look how much they use the clinch to deliver knee strikes and how effective it is. howver not everyone is gonna train in muay thai and be able to use it to that degree of devastation, but that goes with anything. some people are better than others. but all u have to do is watch some videos of silva fights, or other chute box members to see that they use muay thai skills and they are extremely brutal, agressive, and devastating. silva is one of the toughest, best fighters in the world and his style is muay thai.

[sihing]

Okay, I've never seen video's of him but will download some and observe. Thanks for the heads up. I'm openminded and am willing to look at anything.

James

[sihing]

Downloaded and watched a highlight clip of him. I don't understand what this has to do with what I've posted on this thread. Is Vanderlei Silva a good fighter? Yes. Would I want to fight him? No, not really, lol. But he is a professional fighter, and like the Thai's he trains all day all the time. Break his back, put him in the hospital for a few months, have the doctors tell him that he will never be the same due to irreversible back trauma, and let’s see what he can do then. That's my point here. The guy is obviously a natural fighter, and likes to fight, and has the time and resources to train all the time, anyone in most MA (except TKD), would be highly proficient and dangerous if they had the same natural instincts as Vanderlavi. I bet if he learned WC he would be more than doublely effective, but for now he relies on his toughness and natural strength and speed, but any type of permanent injury would severely affect his fighting ability because he relies on physical attributes mostly to backup his "Killer instinct" to which he naturally has. Natural fighters are out there everywhere, and when people come into the school I teach at I tell them right off the bat that just because they learn WC, to which I believe is the most effective MA out there, doesn't mean they will be the deadliest fighter around. Every style and system has fighters and practitioners that are naturally gifted and work damm hard at it and are natural fighter also. But I bet that a good dose of WC would double their individual effectiveness for sure...

James

[EmptyneSs]

Downloaded and watched a highlight clip of him. I don't understand what this has to do with what I've posted on this thread. Is Vanderlei Silva a good fighter? Yes. Would I want to fight him? No, not really, lol. But he is a professional fighter, and like the Thai's he trains all day all the time. Break his back, put him in the hospital for a few months, have the doctors tell him that he will never be the same due to irreversible back trauma, and let’s see what he can do then. That's my point here. The guy is obviously a natural fighter, and likes to fight, and has the time and resources to train all the time, anyone in most MA (except TKD), would be highly proficient and dangerous if they had the same natural instincts as Vanderlavi. I bet if he learned WC he would be more than doublely effective, but for now he relies on his toughness and natural strength and speed, but any type of permanent injury would severely affect his fighting ability because he relies on physical attributes mostly to backup his "Killer instinct" to which he naturally has. Natural fighters are out there everywhere, and when people come into the school I teach at I tell them right off the bat that just because they learn WC, to which I believe is the most effective MA out there, doesn't mean they will be the deadliest fighter around. Every style and system has fighters and practitioners that are naturally gifted and work damm hard at it and are natural fighter also. But I bet that a good dose of WC would double their individual effectiveness for sure...

James

hmm im not quite sure what u are trying to say. its not just the natural talent that makes silva dangerous, but his style does as well.look how well he has mastered the clinch and uses it to deliver knee strikes. his kicks are also devasting. other members of his team fight in the same style he does, and they decimate people as well. yes they are great fighters with natural agression and physical ability, but muay thai is the style they use and they have used it very successfully.

ive personally never seen any wing chun practitioners compete in mma, and im not very familiar with wc, so i dont know.

about the back trauma, well it doesnt matter what style u train in, if u got a broken back, u aint gonna be doing much of anything.