1st westener to beat a thai?

[the tick]

I remember vagualy some footage from the 1920's or something which was also posted on here a while back from some Brits. That at least states that Muay Thai was known to some for some time.

[george stando]

Tick: Its strange this hasnt come up that much over the years. I would assume people just accepted what was there and just repeated it without ever challenging or going back to look? I mean there were records, newspapers, photos and even footage of fights, its not the bygone bare knuckle days. I am hoping more comes out of this.

[edlerkevin1]

Hi Kevin,
Ok I got this from Vincent Giordano who was the only one to respond to me so far, see if you can get this to your dad and see if he can add to it or verify anything on there:

""""" I wrote this awhile back on another forum mostly in regards to Dale Kvalheim who I met and is really cool. The questions here would be to see if Raymond could verify the May 1970 fight because that would really put things into a different perspective than what was generally written and known. In regards to the 1970 fight if it is true, how did he win the fight? By decision or KO or? I have also asked my friend who is one of the foremost researchers on muay thai and muay thai fighters and records to see what he says but i havent heard back from him. But you can start here:


Dale Kvalheim fought mostly in the north and won a regional northeastern muay thai championship once. He stated he only fought in Bangkok three times and was ranked #10 at rajadamnern stadium( i believe his highest ranking at any bangkok stadium). Dale's muay thai record was 25 wins and 10 losses and he fought between the years of 1972-1975.

You have to also take into account Raymond Elder, an american, who was primarily known for his japanese bouts but he did fight in thailand as well. I cant corroborate the years since i thought it was more of 1971-1972 that elder was in thailand, but i could wrong and this more accurate. Either way, Elder fought in thailand as well during that period but Dale is better known and Elder virtually forgotten written about more in the japanese kickboxing circles though he definitely fought muay thai in thailand.


On November 5th, 1971, American Raymond Elder defeated Toshiya Furuya to become the first non-Oriental to win the Japanese Middleweight Kick-Boxing crown. The bout was at the Nippon Budokan in Tokyo in front of 9000 cheering spectators.

Elder was from Pasco, Washington. In March 1970, Elder was sent to Thailand to train at the Sri Sothorn Camp and in May 1970 fought at Rajadamnern Stadium. Elder fought 5th ranked middleweight Mahahchai Tacharom--Elder won the bout.

Returning to Japan the over confident Elder did poorly winning 5 and losing 3 until his next fight in Thailand. In November 1970 he returned to Thailand and met the no.1 ranked Thai middleweight Daenthai Ittichit who was the former Rajadamnern Stadium Middleweight Champion. Elder lost by decision. After that bout Elder had 15 straight bouts (winning them all - 12 of them by KO).

In April 1972 Elder defended his title against Abe Oka in Korakuen Hall. On the 13th of August 1972,Elder lost in his bid to win the Orient 'World Middleweight Kickboxing Title' against Thailand's Songket. Elder was KO'ed in the 4th by a series of high kicks to the back of the ear and the neck. According to newspaper sources, Elder was winning the fight up until the point of the KO. Elder blocked the strong Thai kicks for 2 rounds and then started punching dropping his hands like an international boxer and he paid the price.

Elder was known for being superior at using his left jab, having a good ability to block kicks and being proficient on the inside with the use of the knees. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Hey man sorry for going a wall on you haha. Let me know if you're still interested in knowing!

[edlerkevin1]

https://books.google.com/books?id=cd...20edler&f=true