Tweet
I have had about a 75% to 85% success rate with stopping peoples kicks by stopping their kicks with stepping on top of their kicks. Example, if someone was throwing a roundhouse or thigh kick, I can do a thrust kick on the knee and stop them. Do Thais use this alot in MT? Do they wrap their feet or do special conditioning, it seems like I hurt my foot by doing it this weekend. I stopped about 6 of his 7 kicks, but the one I think I hurt it on, was one where he was running in with a "kick-a-soccer-ball-across-the-field-" type of kick. His knee slammed hard under my foot. It stopped him, and was so hard, that I though he might have hurt himself. Anyway, I didn't realize I was hurt until about 4 hours later that night. Should I invest in ankle wraps? Are there any specific types?
-
-
Chad, how did you find yourself using this particular stop kick? Was it easier to target the leg than the hip or did it just work better?
I'm just curious, I haven't done enough full contact yet to try that. -
I never kick a kicking leg.
If someone kicks me in the body i use my hands to stop them.
Or take a littel step to the side away from the kick catch it and counter.Comment
-
Scytale asks:
>>>>Chad, how did you find yourself using this particular stop kick?
Well actually, I read a post about Randy Courture(sp) and the way he fought with his lead elbow raised. So, I tried and experimented with it, and decided I liked it. It disturbed most of the people, because they discovered it hurt to throw a punch. Suprisingly, I thought they would see my elbow and not throw anything, but most people just basically, "punched my elbow". It let me control the punching range. So I figured that they would either try to close or stay outside at kicking range. At 6'0" and about 215 lbs., I'm not much of a kicker, so I had to decide on how to control that range. It started with a counter kick to a "sipat" or kung fu "cross-kick" where the person raises his foot under the kick to throw the guy off. I'm sure this could work, but I wasn't really ready yet to place my shin on the line. I also have a tendacy to throw punches at the thigh. Another thing that played on it was the use of the elbow that we've been working on to stop the knees in a clinch when we have sticks. My shins do not have the kind of conditioning to go shin to shin or to even lift it to block a kick. Bruce Lee talks about interception. With the evolution of fighting styles and stances, I, myself, find the "traditional" JKD stance to not be of my liking. I'm not flexible enough, not to mention probably not fast enough on my legs, to execute a "side-kick" type of stop kick that BL used to do. Not to mention the fact that he usually did it to someone in a karate or similar type of stance. This isn't a knock on BL or the JKD stance or anything, it's just that I didn't make it work for me yet. So anyway, that's the basic train of thought my mind was working when I started incorporating it. Oh, and the deciding factor that I would use it was working out with Stuart one Wednesday night at the park and he complimented it's usefullness. So hope that helps. It's worked very good to me so far, and I look forward to trying it on a little more advanced fighters the more I work on it. I would also not like to know what it is like to come across someone trained really well at this method.
Scytale asks:
>>>>Was it easier to target the leg than the hip or did it just work better?
Well, I don't know about targeting the hip, but I can't see it working against someone in a modern day kickboxing stance. I could almost see the possibility of getting your rear leg taken out. I do see that it could be effective and hopefully painful on the shin, if the kick wasn't too strong, but I think the kick could slide right in with the force, again even possibly taking out the rear leg. I would like to say that the way I can make it work best for myself is to be on the knee so that it takes out the fulcrum as well. Word of caution, be ready to take on his strikes from his fist, because this will only slow down an aggressive fighter, hopefully enough to give you the advantage. If done correctly, it should give you the range control that can give you the extra second to either close or stay out in long range to bide your time. I don't think this is a strong counter to the close, BTW.
Scytale says:
>>>>I'm just curious, I haven't done enough full contact yet to try that.
Me neither.
Duchman, how do you deal with leg kicks?
[Edited by Chad W. Getz on 09-28-2000 at 04:11 AM]Comment
-
answering chad about thais
Hm, chad, dunno if Thais use that stop-hit method or not, but my old instructor said they did when he introduced me to it.. He also said it was a common strategy in FMA to do this.. And he said (and did) strike the hip for his stop-hit.. just like stopping a knife slash at the shoulder.. you have to be faster to catch it nearer the fulcrum, but it's more effectively powerful if you do so..and showed me how a sepa kick can be used as a stop-hit for several kicks, if the timing and placement is right. he was eerie with his stop hits, and being subjected to it felt like i was trying to fight in a closet.. everytime i start to punch or kick, it's stopped one or two inches into the movement..a very frustrating, muscle straining, off-balancing experience..especially when you receive it 5 strikes in a row..
the technique of stomping an oncoming kick just as it begins to leave the ground isn't very different (in my mind, in application) as stepping on an opponent's sword when he let's the tip get near the earth.. if you've seen this done? and i bet that's where the stop-kick evolved from within the fma..a sword disarm..
my marine-buddy was a CQB specialist, or whatever they call the guys that go to CQB school.. and he learned this technique there. i was surprised one day while training when taught me something from the same martial art i was teaching him..
I agree, duchman, that the classic thai counter for a body kick is to suck it up or just block with the forearms.. but keep in mind, that's a predictable defense, especially if you've done it once in the fight already.. if you've never been subjected to an fighter who can stop hit, you should be, just so you see how effective they are.. it throws your opponent off balance, mentally as well as physically.. it's a demoralizer supreme.. when i first started boxing, the boxing gym i attended would let a small guy (130 or so) fight the big bruiser types that would come and want to scrap.. the coach would throw one of us featherweights in the ring with him when he finally got tired of the guy's attitude, with the instruction to stop hit mercilessly. "don't let him even get one out".. either the guy would slink off and never appear again at the gym, or would realize that their are whole dimensions to fighting he'd never pondered..and hang around for his duration to learn....
chad..i'd be curious to know more about this elbow-raised method, and how it's used.. is the article very informative? do you have a link to it? thanks..
[Edited by quietanswer on 10-04-2000 at 12:02 PM]Comment
Okay, now I'm curious about the elbow-raised guard as well...
Is there anywhere we can get more details?
Thanks.
Is there anywhere we can get more details?
Thanks.
Comment
another question: elbow raised
chad,
have you ever recieved a bare fisted blow on your elbow, in the method to which you refer? I'm curious to know what's like to recieve a fist on my upraised elbow, and if it's anywhere as painful as shin-to-shin contact, or as momentarily debilitating. i'm certain it wouldn't feel good to the guy punching, but i'd rather avoid joint injury too..specially since i have such a small bone structure. i find sometimes the techniques you larger guys use have to be altered for my body style...
thanks,
chad,
have you ever recieved a bare fisted blow on your elbow, in the method to which you refer? I'm curious to know what's like to recieve a fist on my upraised elbow, and if it's anywhere as painful as shin-to-shin contact, or as momentarily debilitating. i'm certain it wouldn't feel good to the guy punching, but i'd rather avoid joint injury too..specially since i have such a small bone structure. i find sometimes the techniques you larger guys use have to be altered for my body style...
thanks,
Comment
quietanswer asked:
chad..i'd be curious to know more about this elbow-raised method, and how it's used.. is the article very informative? do you have a link to it? thanks..
Scytale asked:
Okay, now I'm curious about the elbow-raised guard as well...
Is there anywhere we can get more details?
Chad says (with his eyebrow raised)
:
I actually read it here on Mousel's old forum a little while before it went down. I think it was Crafty talking about Rndy courture's evolution of certain techniques in NHB. Now I don't know Randy or his training or anything, so I can't say he learned the elbow destruction from FMA, but all MA's have the "answer's" somewhere if you look for it. Anyway, I had always learned the basic guiding your opponent's punch/fist into your elbow from a regular boxing position, but the way Crafty described it was that instead of raising it "to" every punch, you can put it there and discourage punches all together. I may be wrong with exactly what Crafty was trying to say, but I'm pretty sure it was something about either the evolution of the MA's or panantukan/dumpag. If he's on here, maybe he can confirm or not. The way Randy does it is by placing his front hand somewhere near his ear (I actually cup it over loosely to protect it), and point the elbow forming a triangle directly at your opponent. You can also raise your arms like they do in Muay Thai, and move your elbows into the punch. You can also keep you lead elbow moving around with your rear hand moving around next to it, so that you can actually do the deflection into destruction as it is classically taught. Whatever works for you, right.
I also remember, if I'm not mistaken, Matt Thornton mentioning this on his Straight Blast Gym tapes. I know Randy and Matt are friends, and that Randy does some workshops with them. (?)
One of the things that I like to do to train for this, I got the idea off of Matt's tape and modified it a little, is to have someone just throw blows at me with the NHB gloves and I have a macho headgear on. Jabs, hooks, cross, uppercuts at my face. I can't punch back, but have to accept and destroy. Out of this you should also be able to put in either a passive or destructive parry. Be aware that you can't do just this in a fight. In this "drill", you are working on controlling the range. And although your partner shouldn't be "giving" it to you, he also shouldn't be trying too hard to "take" it from you while you first start out on it. Just use Matt's explanation of Timing, energy, and distance and you should be able to work it pretty good. The better you get at it and more comfortable, your partner should become more aggressive. This is where you can use the frontal stop kicks on his steps. Everytime you see his knee coming forward, you can put a little tap on it with the bottom of your foot, almost like a thrust kick. This will give you a little more control of the range. This will probably only work on a guy that is not trying to close on you, so if the guy is, you may want to try rearranging your strategy for the grappler. Who knows, maybe your elbow could be a nice obstacle between you and your opponent. Don't know, haven't tried it like that...yet.
chad..i'd be curious to know more about this elbow-raised method, and how it's used.. is the article very informative? do you have a link to it? thanks..
Scytale asked:
Okay, now I'm curious about the elbow-raised guard as well...
Is there anywhere we can get more details?
Chad says (with his eyebrow raised)
:I actually read it here on Mousel's old forum a little while before it went down. I think it was Crafty talking about Rndy courture's evolution of certain techniques in NHB. Now I don't know Randy or his training or anything, so I can't say he learned the elbow destruction from FMA, but all MA's have the "answer's" somewhere if you look for it. Anyway, I had always learned the basic guiding your opponent's punch/fist into your elbow from a regular boxing position, but the way Crafty described it was that instead of raising it "to" every punch, you can put it there and discourage punches all together. I may be wrong with exactly what Crafty was trying to say, but I'm pretty sure it was something about either the evolution of the MA's or panantukan/dumpag. If he's on here, maybe he can confirm or not. The way Randy does it is by placing his front hand somewhere near his ear (I actually cup it over loosely to protect it), and point the elbow forming a triangle directly at your opponent. You can also raise your arms like they do in Muay Thai, and move your elbows into the punch. You can also keep you lead elbow moving around with your rear hand moving around next to it, so that you can actually do the deflection into destruction as it is classically taught. Whatever works for you, right.
I also remember, if I'm not mistaken, Matt Thornton mentioning this on his Straight Blast Gym tapes. I know Randy and Matt are friends, and that Randy does some workshops with them. (?)
One of the things that I like to do to train for this, I got the idea off of Matt's tape and modified it a little, is to have someone just throw blows at me with the NHB gloves and I have a macho headgear on. Jabs, hooks, cross, uppercuts at my face. I can't punch back, but have to accept and destroy. Out of this you should also be able to put in either a passive or destructive parry. Be aware that you can't do just this in a fight. In this "drill", you are working on controlling the range. And although your partner shouldn't be "giving" it to you, he also shouldn't be trying too hard to "take" it from you while you first start out on it. Just use Matt's explanation of Timing, energy, and distance and you should be able to work it pretty good. The better you get at it and more comfortable, your partner should become more aggressive. This is where you can use the frontal stop kicks on his steps. Everytime you see his knee coming forward, you can put a little tap on it with the bottom of your foot, almost like a thrust kick. This will give you a little more control of the range. This will probably only work on a guy that is not trying to close on you, so if the guy is, you may want to try rearranging your strategy for the grappler. Who knows, maybe your elbow could be a nice obstacle between you and your opponent. Don't know, haven't tried it like that...yet.
Comment
Thanks for the extra info, Chad. It seems like such a guard would leave your side open for round kicks. But after thinking about it, a round kick is much slower than a straight punch and it should be easier to move your guard _down_ to protect from the kick rather than _up_ to protect from a punch. It seems like it might also be an effective draw, causing people to try and kick. Have your opponents gone for that opening?
Comment
ever try using your knee to block a mid or low kick? You can use your elbow to block the high kicks too..
This is all very P.F.S Paul Vunak stuff...
I think Sam Greco uses this system of elbow and knee destructions...he's been using them alot in his recent fights...
This is all very P.F.S Paul Vunak stuff...
I think Sam Greco uses this system of elbow and knee destructions...he's been using them alot in his recent fights...
Comment
i agree, scytale, that would make a good draw.. look for the guy to roundkick to your right side, and then step in and jam the kick and punch his face...if i couldn't do that, i'd do the classic thai defense of sidestepping with the energy of the kick and attacking his posting leg..
would i fight with that guard all the time? probably not.. but i think it will make an excellent position for me to pop in and out of while fighting, for varied amounts of time.. i fight with lots of hand positions.. mixing it up for the reasons Bruce Lee suggested.. and i see what chad is talking about now.. comparing it to the parry/elbowdestruction movement made it all so much clearer. and thanks, chad..
in fact, notice how that raised elbow position is very similar to the position you end up in after an uppeructting elbow? pretty cool. it seems it would be natural if while infighting you are throwing elbows, he steps outside that range (because of the mad rush of cutting elbows) and you pop into that guard after the last elbow.. and prepare to catch and destroy a fist.
pretty cool.
i love how things fit together
dwayne
would i fight with that guard all the time? probably not.. but i think it will make an excellent position for me to pop in and out of while fighting, for varied amounts of time.. i fight with lots of hand positions.. mixing it up for the reasons Bruce Lee suggested.. and i see what chad is talking about now.. comparing it to the parry/elbowdestruction movement made it all so much clearer. and thanks, chad..
in fact, notice how that raised elbow position is very similar to the position you end up in after an uppeructting elbow? pretty cool. it seems it would be natural if while infighting you are throwing elbows, he steps outside that range (because of the mad rush of cutting elbows) and you pop into that guard after the last elbow.. and prepare to catch and destroy a fist.
pretty cool.
i love how things fit together
dwayne
Comment
Elbows in the instep really hurt! To stop a body roundhouse, side step or counter with a push kick to the stomach. Also if your opponent is kicking with his right, use a more snapping kick to his thigh or supporting leg.
Why the snapping kick instead of the traditional thai??
To beat him to the kick and your counterattack becomes an attack because your opponent cant kick you before you do.
Why the snapping kick instead of the traditional thai??
To beat him to the kick and your counterattack becomes an attack because your opponent cant kick you before you do.
Comment
Re: another question: elbow raised
Dwayne, I have never hurt my elbow on someones fist. I have however heard that others may have hurt themselves, but I have never experienced this and don't understand really how someone could hurt it. Maybe anyone here has hurt it like this?
Originally posted by quietanswer
chad,
have you ever recieved a bare fisted blow on your elbow, in the method to which you refer?
thanks,
chad,
have you ever recieved a bare fisted blow on your elbow, in the method to which you refer?
thanks,
Comment
In my experience I have found stop kicks to be a bit dangerous, especially is you misjudge the angle of the kick (I have been cracked in the nuts for this). Also I don't kick a kicking leg cause a much larger person can sometimes cause you to go of balance.
For low/middle leg kicks I have always prefered the 45 dergree angled leg checks and for high roud kicks I have my arm/s raised up like a half square with open hands facing out so I can reposition the kick if I can hook it.
Kyoshu
For low/middle leg kicks I have always prefered the 45 dergree angled leg checks and for high roud kicks I have my arm/s raised up like a half square with open hands facing out so I can reposition the kick if I can hook it.
Kyoshu
Comment
Kyoshu,
What's a half square?
I haven't heard of 45 degree angle leg checks, either.. hm.
I must be back'ards.
"you aint from around here, are you boy?"
I'm curious about both these techniques..
hm.
What's a half square?
I haven't heard of 45 degree angle leg checks, either.. hm.
I must be back'ards.
"you aint from around here, are you boy?"
I'm curious about both these techniques..
hm.
Comment