Question about Muay Thai kicking

[Penance]

I've seen muay thai matches on tv, and have seen the same kind of kicks in self defense videos. Coming from a karate background, these kicks seem very strange.

I was taught that kicking with the shin is bad. But then people like Bas Rutten say it's one of the hardest bones in the body. I don't know if this is true or not, but I know when I get hit in the shin it hurts!

Also, there are the kicks where you make contact with the top of your foot. We also learned this was bad because you can break your foot easily.

In karate you are taught to use the ball of the foot, the heel, or the outside edge (blade). I was told this is because 1) Simple physics, you do more damage by applying power onto a smaller area then you do by spreading the same power out over a larger area and 2) Less chance of hurting yourself.

Also, whenever I see people kick in these matches, they are thrown way off balance, sometimes giving their backs to the opponent. We were always taught to deliver fast, well-controlled kicks and to never do a flashy move that puts your off balance or exposes your back.

Understand, I am NOT critcizing. I just want to learn and understand more and hear the other side of the story and grasp why muay thai does kicking the way it does and why it is better or worse than other styles.

[bdipab]

Karate kicks are often more about snappiness, whereas muay thai (roundhouse) are more about driving through. Basically karate kicks can often be like jabs in boxing, whereas the thai kicks are like a good cross/hook - it's about driving through the target. You can condition you're shin and a good kick with the shins does a lot of damage. Also with you're foot extended you have a larger kicking surface and so you can be pretty devestating and accurate with them.

As far as ending with you're back to someone I have two points. One you arent' exactly defenseless even in that position - depends on the fighter. Two, there are different theories/instructor views on performing and what to do when you miss. It's a lot like swinging a bat (the kicks) and a good hard swing has the bat travel to the other side of you're body (so you should also notice that good muay thai fighters use the motion to fake as a setup, and they don't commit to the kick until they see a proper opening, but sometimes the opening doesn't pan out just like a spinning back kick may leave you open when you miss that). If you look at that Dekker highlight that was posted you'll see how accurate and strong a blow those kicks can be.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I came from a karate background when I was young, moved into Jeet Kune Do and the grappling arts through my teen and early twenties, and have been focusing almost solely on Muay Thai for my main striking skills these days. I was first introduced to Muay Thai during my training with Jeet Kune Do Concepts guys like Paul Vunak, Thomas Cruse, etc. I practiced it all through my JKD training, but never really got into the history, spirituality, and in depth details of techniques and training until about a year ago.

I can say from my experiences with the other martial arts that Thai boxing is probably one of the best stand up arts I've seen in terms of power and directness.

That being said, I do feel that Thai boxing requires a lot more conditioning then some other types of martial arts. Yes we hit (and block) with our shins, and sometimes elbows.
The shinbone is an extremely hard surface to hit with and can generate incredibly damaging power if landed properly to the right targets. (Think of hitting someone's thigh, neck, or ribs with a baseball bat)
The shin however needs to be conditioned to withstand trauma from kicking. The shin can be damaged, broken, fractured, etc. if landed incorrectly, or sometimes just from lack of conditioning.
As I write this I'm nursing an injured left shin from landing a super hard thigh kick....on my training partners picture perfect knee block... And I've got pretty decently conditioned shins.
In answer to your question about Muay Thai, the kicks of Thai boxing are among the most powerful in all martial arts. The entire body is behind the trademark roundkick. What it hits, it has the potential of destroying. To use these kinds of kicks in practical situations requires a lot of conditioning and training. Many people (without training) can block a kick with their shins just out of reflex. It's not that unnatural. So if you use Muay Thai styled kicks without the training to know how to throw them properly, land them properly, or set them up properly, it is very possible to damage your legs in a self defense situation.

Turning your back from the momentum of the kick can be a dangerous thing. Most of the better Thai boxers are able to recover from a missed kick without exposing their back, or their spin is so quick and controlled that the opponent doesn't have much of a chance to counter in time.

[Khun Kao]

I was taught that kicking with the shin is bad. But then people like Bas Rutten say it's one of the hardest bones in the body. I don't know if this is true or not, but I know when I get hit in the shin it hurts!

I don't know whether its accurate to say that the shin is one of the hardest bones in the body or not, but the shin is a very hard bone. Of course when you first learn to kick with it, its painful. Heck, I've been doing this 13 years and I've spoken with old, retired Thai boxers about this. The pain never entirely goes away, but you condition yourself to it.

Also, there are the kicks where you make contact with the top of your foot. We also learned this was bad because you can break your foot easily.

There is that risk, but its a matter of learning to hold your foot properly and conditioning your body. Lets just say you don't start off blasting targets with full power. That is just ASKING for injuries!

In karate you are taught to use the ball of the foot, the heel, or the outside edge (blade). I was told this is because 1) Simple physics, you do more damage by applying power onto a smaller area then you do by spreading the same power out over a larger area and 2) Less chance of hurting yourself.

So what's different about kicking with your shin? Think about this a moment. Its not your entire shin that makes contact with the target, but one small section. Sure, its a larger surface than the ball, blade, or heel of your foot, but not much. And this is not a knock on Karate, but the Thai style roundhouse is EXPONENTIALLY more powerful than a Karate roundhouse. (2 different kicks developed for different strategies)

Also, whenever I see people kick in these matches, they are thrown way off balance, sometimes giving their backs to the opponent. We were always taught to deliver fast, well-controlled kicks and to never do a flashy move that puts your off balance or exposes your back.

The more I learn, the more I realize that balance is a subjective thing. What appears off balance to a Karateka is perfectly balanced to a Muay Thai stylist. You have to understand that we are discussing two entirely different styles of fighting developed for entirely different situations. So what you are seeing that appears to be off balance truthfully is not. Also, you have to consider that when a Muay Thai fighter kicks and "gives his back", this has occurred because his opponent was out of range of the kick. Since kicking is a long range attack, this gives a Thai fighter PLENTY of time to recover before his opponent can close the distance to do some damage. Watch some fights again. You will often see that the reason the kick missed and the fighters back exposed is because his opponent stepped back out of range. While he then attempts to close distance to attack, the fighter has recovered his position.