They are attempting to ban martial arts in canada

[swisscom]

The "They are attempting to ban martial arts in canada" is not from my mouth. CAKMA said it at my gym, and it is true to this extent.

As you said octavious, it mentions nothing about banning martial arts. It is regarding fights in which the fighter does not get paid, such as "Prize fights"
If they pass this law, there will be no more sparring, no more continuous tournaments (not sure if this term is applied outside of calgary), and every martial art will be prevented from competition.

I'm not taking muay thai to not use it, if there isn't competitions I could do, it is pointless to have the skill. That's what I think.

[OctaviousBP]

The "They are attempting to ban martial arts in canada" is not from my mouth. CAKMA said it at my gym, and it is true to this extent.

As you said octavious, it mentions nothing about banning martial arts. It is regarding fights in which the fighter does not get paid, such as "Prize fights"
If they pass this law, there will be no more sparring, no more continuous tournaments (not sure if this term is applied outside of calgary), and every martial art will be prevented from competition.

I'm not taking muay thai to not use it, if there isn't competitions I could do, it is pointless to have the skill. That's what I think.

I'll just post the section here for clarification

Prize Fights

Engaging in prize fight
83. (1) Every one who

(a) engages as a principal in a prize fight,

(b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or

(c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Definition of "prize fight"
(2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 83; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 186.

First off, I'll draw your attention to sub-section (2) where prize fight is defined. Give it another read...

Secondly, there is no "if this law is passed"... This is a section of the existing Criminal Code. It passed ten years ago. It is binding law at this time.

I don't know who has been telling you what at your gym, but a little research goes a long way before telling everyone they are banning MA in Canada. Maybe you misinterpreted what was being said at your gym?

[swisscom]

I'm saying exactly what they're saying.
Well okay, you prove a good point. This is already a part of the existing criminal code. They are either amending it, or going to enforce it more. In any case, shit is going to hit the fan.

[IPON]

Swisscom: I think that statuate refers not to sparring or exercise but to non sanctioned fights. So not pit fights where people can make money to watch you fight. This is not allowed in the US and I am sure other countries as well.

I think whoever told you that story was over reacting

[OctaviousBP]

What the existing law states, with no amendment or change, is that fighting for money is illegal. Martial arts, sparring, amateur competition... all very much legal.

but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight.

I assure you, martial arts are alive and well in Canada.

[swisscom]

Well...
I am agreeing with you, because what you're saying and what I am reading on the site is not what I heard.

I apologize for relaying false information~

I'll post more when I hear more.

[swisscom]

Today, our Petition with over 300 signatures was delivered to MP Lee Richardson to be presented in the House of Commons next week.

A special thanks goes out to Sandra Bastian (winner of headgear) for collecting the most signatures and Matt Cruickshank for collecting the second most signatures! Great work!

Section 83 of the Criminal Code of Canada will be reviewed and re-written in August 2005 and we need to raise as much awareness as possible to ensure that it is amended to say "all martial arts are legal in Canada".

CAKMA will continue to circulate this Petition until August and encourages all members to pass it along to any and all clubs and gyms as it affects all martial arts in Canada. The Petition can easily be customized to other disciplines by inserting the words "Judo, Karate, Ju-Jitsu, etc.. ". People can forward their signed Petitions directly to their MP's.

Thank you everyone.
Your friends at CAKMA.
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[DVSJ]

Makes me wonder

If this is true what would be the true reasoning for something like that.Anythings possible,especially these days...governments all allover have been/will be pushin their weight around...and if Canada happens to pull off a stunt like that I may never drink another bottle of Moosehead offered to me or any Canadien booze for that matter...

[OctaviousBP]

Swisscom:

What exactly are the ammendments that are being petitioned for?

[swisscom]

Not EXACTLY sure, but I believe it is just to have it written that "All martial arts are legal in Canada" *shrugs* idunno man ~

[SamuraiGuy]

First of all... if they were going to ban Martial Arts.. they would be banning the competitions... there is no way they could ban the teaching of it, holding competitions is a stupid but possible ban.

Speaking of which, anyone know of any MMA competitions in Ontario Canada, I want to start fighting kids. err... people.. not kids... although id take on a few kids to pad the ol record.... thats right 72 - 0.. .take that six year olds.

[WMTI]

Section 83 is nto a ban - its a regulatory attempt

It seems there are some people spreading hype about section 83 and the end of martial arts. This is NOT the case! The section simply wishes to write in the name of the sports, and require them to adhere to the PSO or other regulatory commissions. This is a good thing for fighters and schools. Those that oppose it are generally doing so in attempts to prevent it so that they may continue to hold events without proper sanctioning and regulations. Many provinces interpret the current code as saying if they are amateur then they are exempt. That is nto how its written, and since there are vague areas, many provinces choose not to enforce the code. In all reality, it would be more beneficial for you to support the ammendment to the section as it will assure that more PSOs are created as there will be no more conflicts of interests, or people using Muay Thai as a way to further thier own interests, or bank accounts. Instead it will create a safe way to participate in these events, that would be held with fairness to all as a major conisderation. This is my understanding of the ammendment. It also doesnt state martial arts will be banned it is saying all sports will be held to the section. I do belive most if not all PSO's will support this ammendment, as well as sanctioned commissions etc for all sports.
Please dont believe the hype that is being spread about this ammendment, it is not bad for fighters at all. infact it will almost definelty be very good for them, and create more events and PSO's.
I do believe we will be asking the MP's to name each sport specifically and will request that Muay Thai infact be included in it. It will not prevent the sport, it will prevent people from running events outside the system. ( IE PSO, or regulatory commissions)
I hope this helps. I admitedly am not the best person to speak on legal issues, however this is the "cut to the chase" version of the investigation by us and other organizations that have considered the options available. I gave my opinions above and did not intend to cause damage to anyone or any associtation. All comments are made with generalization in mind.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and not falling for that "The Sky Is Falling" movement. In a year or 2 whenever the law is actually changed it will be much better for us all. Keep in mind there are 2 reading on the section before anything is done, and this is only the first reading coming up.

Thanks!

[Chopper1]

Agreed: Sec. 83 revisions are intended to improve things, but...

Fact: Section 83 of the Canadian Criminal Code (written in 1932) bans all “prize fighting” except boxing, and all martial art contests in Canada are by definition of the current code (i.e. technically speaking) illegal activities ~ that in writing from a government body.
Fact: The government has simply chosen not to enforce the law as it now stands recognizing that “some legitimate martial arts” have developed since the Section 83 was written.
Fact: Alberta Federal MP Lee Richardson’s office, confirmed this week that Section 83 is being reviewed at this time and recommendations have been made by the provinces to the federal government as to how the code should read – i.e. which martial arts would be included in blanket legislation, which might fall under provincial exemptions. Changes are expected to be put forward in Parliament in Sept/05.
Fact: Mr. Steve Pritchard, Sport Services Manager of Alberta Government and Mr. Brian Ozorio of the Ministry of Tourism and Recreation of the Ontario Provincial Government have also confirmed that the provinces/territories have put forward recommendations regarding martial arts contests within their respective areas.


So here are some key points worth considering - there are others:
1. Do you know what the proposed recommendations are, or how you as a business-owner or martial artist might be affected?
2. Do you know of anyone in the martial arts field that has been consulted on these proposed changes that have been put forward? [if so please let me know. Thanks]
3. If the legislation is rewritten to exempt additional combative sports from being considered "illegal prize fighting” (beyond the current boxing), will your style be included in this exemption?
4. If your style is lucky enough to be added to a proposed exemption list, which “martial art association” will be the governing body responsible for monitoring and/or sanctioning your competitions?
5. If your style is not include…what will you do then?
6. Will hockey fights (in Canada) be deemed prize fighting under revised legislation? Or will they be exempt as well.

I’m sure the intention is to improve things on a number of levels. And there are lots of opinions out there about what will ‘likely happen’ and what recommendations have been put forward but no one seems to know for sure, and so far the Ministries are not sharing details. As martial artists, would it not be better to speak up now and try to discover what IS being recommended to the Minister of Justice before less than optimum legislation gets passed?

The petition available at http://www.MixedMartialArtsExpo.com simply asks that before rewriting Section 83 the government take into consideration that approx. 2,000 martial arts schools representing an estimated 500,000 practitioners and some 50+ styles will be affected by the revised legislation.

[WMTI]

That brings us right back to what I said before. You and your school, and its provincial and federal bodies should be requesting that they be part of the bill, as well as every other martial are, and combative sport. We will be recomending that all the above be listed in the new bill, and room to add any others that may arise in the future. the bill previously was written with little to no consideration for the future. This time we hope to amend it to look forward to possibilities, and make recomendations that all combative and martial art sports currently in practice world wide be named in the bill, and that there be a process for any new sport unnamed to go through to be placed on a list as well.

I spoke with the Lee Richardson's office already, and they are aware of the major players in this sport and our standing on the issue, and the resons why. I dont feel a 300 name petition will go very far, when a petition from a potentially 36 million people, of which approximately 20-25million are of age to sign a petition. Eitherway, the petition In my opinion is nto about protecting the sport, its more about protecting certain individual's private agendas. This bill would essentially lockdown those individuals and make them conform to the laws that the rest of the country already do. Nothing but the facts here and my "personal" opinion.

We work closely with the Ministry of culture and recreation as thats where we came up from. All sports are now being moved to the Ministry of Health I believe, quite possibly may already have been moved. ALL SPORTS without exception as I hear it. This information is 3rd hand, however I believe my source was accurate.

Bottomlilne, if all sports are named in the bill, it will create a level playingfield for fairplay and safety. it would encourage the creation of an NSO much more quickly, and would aid in cooperation of provinces with one another. As it stands our province is currently working with several provinces to assist them in any way we can to help them qualify for a PSO as well. No one can win till we all win, and that means we need PSO's or equivalent regulatory body structures. I urge you to think carefuly before signing a petition that would slow this process down, if it infact ever gained enough signatures to deem consideration. Instead, you may simply wish to write you MPs stating that you would like to see all sports be named and that a PSO or equivalent at teh Provincial level be the governing body and that without that body's sanctioning, no one could hold an event. That would secure safety, and level playing field nationally, it would aid in passport and record tracking, and national suspension lists, etc.

I hope that I made my point clear. I wont comment on it further, as I dont feel it worth beating a deade horse. those who disagree at this point are probably best to simply agree to disagree and wait for the government to do what it wishes. Afterall, the government never listens to the citizens in Canada, so We are probably both wasting our time here LOL!!!

For the legal types and those that just like to complain. All these statements are my own and are my personal opinion, not aimed at any 1 indiviudal or association. There is not intent to do malice or create hardships for anyone or any group. :-) Basically, its my view. And its 1 of many choices. I ask everyoje to read all the info, call your mp ask questions, and then form you own view and do as you feel is the right course of action. I believe its beneficial to us all to have various opinions and views, and I believe that we all want the same thing. Muay Thai and all other arts to flourish in the country, and that all citizens should have the same rights and privelghes under the same rules and advantages. Thats our goal here, to create a fair and level playing field that all can participate in, and to gain more experience and global exposure!
Sorry for the novel, but I felt this needed a little clarity.
Ajarn Gary Dunne

[WMTI]

That brings us right back to what I said before. You and your school, and its provincial and federal bodies should be requesting that they be part of the bill, as well as every other martial arts, and combative sport are. We will be recomending that all the above be listed in the new bill, and room to add any others that may arise in the future. the bill previously was written with little to no consideration for the future. This time we hope to amend it to look forward to possibilities, and make recomendations that all combative and martial art sports currently in practice world wide be named in the bill, and that there be a process for any new sport unnamed to go through to be placed on a list as well.

I spoke with the Lee Richardson's office already, and they are aware of the major players in this sport and our standing on the issue, and the resons why. I dont feel a 300 name petition will go very far, when a petition from a potentially 36 million people, of which approximately 20-25million are of age to sign a petition. Eitherway, the petition In my opinion is nto about protecting the sport, its more about protecting certain individual's private agendas. This bill would essentially lockdown those individuals and make them conform to the laws that the rest of the country already do. Nothing but the facts here and my "personal" opinion.

We work closely with the Ministry of culture and recreation as thats where we came up from. All sports are now being moved to the Ministry of Health I believe, quite possibly may already have been moved. ALL SPORTS without exception as I hear it. This information is 3rd hand, however I believe my source was accurate.

Bottomlilne, if all sports are named in the bill, it will create a level playingfield for fairplay and safety. it would encourage the creation of an NSO much more quickly, and would aid in cooperation of provinces with one another. As it stands our province is currently working with several provinces to assist them in any way we can to help them qualify for a PSO as well. No one can win till we all win, and that means we need PSO's or equivalent regulatory body structures. I urge you to think carefuly before signing a petition that would slow this process down, if it infact ever gained enough signatures to deem consideration. Instead, you may simply wish to write you MPs stating that you would like to see all sports be named and that a PSO or equivalent at teh Provincial level be the governing body and that without that body's sanctioning, no one could hold an event. That would secure safety, and level playing field nationally, it would aid in passport and record tracking, and national suspension lists, etc.

I hope that I made my point clear. I wont comment on it further, as I dont feel it worth beating a deade horse. those who disagree at this point are probably best to simply agree to disagree and wait for the government to do what it wishes. Afterall, the government never listens to the citizens in Canada, so We are probably both wasting our time here LOL!!!

For the legal types and those that just like to complain. All these statements are my own and are my personal opinion, not aimed at any 1 indiviudal or association. There is not intent to do malice or create hardships for anyone or any group. :-) Basically, its my view. And its 1 of many choices. I ask everyoje to read all the info, call your mp ask questions, and then form you own view and do as you feel is the right course of action. I believe its beneficial to us all to have various opinions and views, and I believe that we all want the same thing. Muay Thai and all other arts to flourish in the country, and that all citizens should have the same rights and privelghes under the same rules and advantages. Thats our goal here, to create a fair and level playing field that all can participate in, and to gain more experience and global exposure!
Sorry for the novel, but I felt this needed a little clarity.
Ajarn Gary Dunne