Savate vs. Muaythai

[Ghost]

the shoe issue is fairly irrelevant i practice in trainers out the back of my house in the uk on the punchbag and its easier with shoes on than without, better grip and more stability.
so its not an issue to practive without shoes on, if anything your balance may improve.

[fire cobra]

Ghost,
you need trainers in some of the Kay Muay in Thailand eh!.

[Jujujason]

Savate is stuck doing 'snap-kicks'??? For your info, savate guys train a ton with thai pads. A lot of them can get the same torque with their fouettes (round kicks) that a thai boxer can, only they're concentrating the force at the tip of the shoe. Try letting even one of those slip through or around your guard to a rib, liver, solar plexus, spleen, kidney, temple, ear or jaw and then we can discuss power. In addition to having a lot of (underrated) power, they're doing those kicks out of movement and are much busier (basically boxing with the feet) unlike the thai that is basically rooted in place throwing bombs.

As for boxing having better hands, well of course they do 'cause they ONLY train hands. Remember, the savateur is working with the same 24 hr day/7 day week that everyone else is working with. However, I believe the original convo was about savate vs. muay thai, right?

I do agree with Michael Wright that a lot of guys tend to focus on Assault (light contact), but in France a lot of guys do Combat (full contact). Maybe that video wasn't a good example of two 'high level champions', but if you want one, try finding a copy of a fight between Francois Pinnachio and Ramon Dekker that took place in the mid 90's (?). Pinnachio beat the hell out of Dekker who is arguably the best non-Thai thai boxer (in his time). This fight took place under international rules, which still favors the thai boxer IMO.

Spandex or not, there are some tough dudes in savate. They just don't get the recognition that the thais do. Hopefully, this'll change (Thank you Youtube!). I also agree that there is a much better return on the investment of time in the study of Thai boxing than savate and the feedback of striking a thai pad with a shin is much more satisfying to a westerner's need for instant gratification than is stiking a focus mitt, but don't dismiss something without fully understanding it first. J~

[fire cobra]

I agree with you JuJuJason,but think you may want to watch more Muay Thai fighters like Saenchai if you think the Nak Muay just stand still throwing bombs.

[Ghost]

Yeah i dont agree with the rooted to the floor thing either, one session on the tractor tyre will convince someone of that. but savate is a good system and they have some capable guys out there.

[fire cobra]

Oh the dreaded tractor tyre! the first time i tried that i thought it would be easy! wrong! 10 mins later i was dying! 30 mins later i was dead from the hips down! of course then came the bag,pads and clinch work!.

[Ghost]

Oh the dreaded tractor tyre! the first time i tried that i thought it would be easy! wrong! 10 mins later i was dying! 30 mins later i was dead from the hips down! of course then came the bag,pads and clinch work!.

i remember after the first time i did it and getting out of bed the next day, saying that the day after wasnt much better but i fell down instead of stood up. couldnt walk properly. lots of thai oil and so on but what a mess.
I think the view that thai boxers being rooted comes from the mentality of the stand and fight rather than move around the ring dodging. but plenty of movement goes on.

More on topic the short range bent leg round kick lends itself well to shoes. especially if you step through on the triangle and land the toe to the front of the body instead of the shin. soft targets are best for shoes i think.
Ribs personally id stick to the shin as i feel compression is the name of the game. Of course teep is great with shoes on but that works with or with out. doing a true teep with shoes on rather than a push kick does get great results especially in the lower abs area as you would a true teep. very nasty.

[Guest]

Savate is stuck doing 'snap-kicks'??? For your info, savate guys train a ton with thai pads. A lot of them can get the same torque with their fouettes (round kicks) that a thai boxer can, only they're concentrating the force at the tip of the shoe. Try letting even one of those slip through or around your guard to a rib, liver, solar plexus, spleen, kidney, temple, ear or jaw and then we can discuss power. In addition to having a lot of (underrated) power, they're doing those kicks out of movement and are much busier (basically boxing with the feet) unlike the thai that is basically rooted in place throwing bombs.

As for boxing having better hands, well of course they do 'cause they ONLY train hands. Remember, the savateur is working with the same 24 hr day/7 day week that everyone else is working with. However, I believe the original convo was about savate vs. muay thai, right?

I do agree with Michael Wright that a lot of guys tend to focus on Assault (light contact), but in France a lot of guys do Combat (full contact). Maybe that video wasn't a good example of two 'high level champions', but if you want one, try finding a copy of a fight between Francois Pinnachio and Ramon Dekker that took place in the mid 90's (?). Pinnachio beat the hell out of Dekker who is arguably the best non-Thai thai boxer (in his time). This fight took place under international rules, which still favors the thai boxer IMO.

Spandex or not, there are some tough dudes in savate. They just don't get the recognition that the thais do. Hopefully, this'll change (Thank you Youtube!). I also agree that there is a much better return on the investment of time in the study of Thai boxing than savate and the feedback of striking a thai pad with a shin is much more satisfying to a westerner's need for instant gratification than is stiking a focus mitt, but don't dismiss something without fully understanding it first. J~

I have been dropped by a Savate kick to the kidney, and I couldn't agree with you more, the power is way underestimated.

I guess where I would have to take issue is the notion of Thai being routed and throwing bombs - I thought that before I studied it, and I was wrong. Certainly Toddy's and Chai's Thai has a superb understanding of always keeping a mobile base under you with the ability to pick up either leg at will. Also the combination work can be very subtle, faking one major line of attack to hit on the other. Good Thai Boxers have much greater footwork and subtle skill than they are given credit for - it is these factors that get them in the right place at the right time to throw the big "bombs"

[bigboywasim]

I love both styles but if I had to pick one it would be MT.
I have seen Savate fights and I do MT under a Thai fighter from Thailand.

Rating 1-10
1 is lowest and 10 highest


Savate
Body Movement 10
Attack Speed 10
Attack Power 8
Accuracy 10
Moves (Overall) 7
Breakdown of Moves
Hands 9
Legs 7

No knees elbows or headbutts which really sucks.

Note:

The main weakness of Savate against MT is the lack of knees and elbows and clinch game. Without shoes there kicks are not really that great. Their kicks are also weaker because they do not use shins. They have excellent speed and movement with great Accuracy.

MT
Body Movement 5 (Not too much of a problem because a few well placed low shin kicks and you going to slow down)
Attack Speed 9
Attack Power 10
Accuracy 8
Moves (Overall) 10
Breakdown of Moves
Hands 7
Legs 10 (shins)
Knees 10
elbows 10

No headbutts which sucks.

[Shoot]

Snap v. Round kick

I have to chime in on this. It is true that a MT Round kick using the lower shin is probably more "crushing" and powerful. It is also true that a snap kick (ala Karate or TKD or Kickboxing or Savate) is faster and more pin pointed and can be used to tag specific targets.

MT= smash man in front of me with hard kick..ugh. The target is essentially the guy in front of you.

With the snappy kicking arts the targets are on the man in front of you.

I will say this too: I'd much rather land a hard MT kick, but I'd much rather miss with a snappy kick. That's the point that my Karate and TKD friends make--that a chambered kick (snap kick) is much safer in that you don't throw your own balance off by using it, unlike a round MT kick. That's the purpose of snappy kicks.

Think of punching. The hardest punch I can throw would have me cocking my arm way back and swinging forward and slightly circular--the John Wayne punch. Yes, I've landed some of these in real fights and they made quite a mess of my opponent. But, if you miss, you're balance is all off and you can find yourself in trouble if your opponent is a good counter puncher. The hardest, bone crushingest, smashingest strike isn't nec. the best, especially in the real world where someone can jamb you and tackle you to the ground.

The solution: Learn both. Striking arts are simple and easy. There's no reason to not add MT to a TKD, Karate, Kickboxing, Savate base or vice versa.

[Tom Yum]

bone crushingest.

I like that word.

[Jujujason]

I agree with Shoot. STX kickboxing rocks!