Effective Clinch Technique with taller opp.

[da_mill]

Hi,

I feel I'm missing something technique wise, or he is just a lot, lot better than me - Often I will move into the clinch with a guy who is taller than me but weighs about the same (perhaps 1 or 2kgs more). Edit: Thought I aded this but didn't - he has a wrestling background, which I imagine makes a huge difference lol.

As in, we are in close, punches are thrown, I push my way in on the arm and get a full thai clinch arms (plum). I squeeze my forearms, gloves on back of the head, and I can get some control - but not enough. He is happy to stand as tall as possible and throw uppercuts into my ribs and generally not be too worried...

Point is I'm trying my hardest to get good head control and set myself up for knees, yet he is happy to stand as straight as he can and just throw uppercuts at me. This makes me think there is something wrong with my clinch technique lol.

I find it hard when using gloves to get good head leverage so I'm going to try and get my gloves higher on the head. Apart from that I haven't got too much, I can turn him OK when I swivel my hips, but still that doesnt improve position as he is always punching, unworried by me having plum.

Ideas would be greatly appreciated please.

[Cannon_6]

You're on the right track -- stand up on your toes and get your hands up higher on the back of his head, and your elbows on or near his collar bones.

Pull his head forward with your hands/wrists to bend his neck, and at the same time, step back with one foot and drop your body weight down to bend his body toward you.

Once you get the hang of using your weight, you'll be able to toss him all over the place.

[da_mill]

You're on the right track -- stand up on your toes and get your hands up higher on the back of his head, and your elbows on or near his collar bones.

Pull his head forward with your hands/wrists to bend his neck, and at the same time, step back with one foot and drop your body weight down to bend his body toward you.

Once you get the hang of using your weight, you'll be able to toss him all over the place.

Thanks. It's annoying that I probably won't be able to try more until next week lol.

I would add all the clinch training I've done before was with no gloves, and that was a billion times easier lol. Will try standing on my toes etc and dropping my hips harder. Thanks.

[Khun Kao]

I positively *hate* clinching with wrestlers! They have a very tight clinch and rarely leave you room to operate. On the flip side I've found that while they have a very smothering clinch style, they rarely are effective with their striking from the clinch. Having such a tight, smothering body control negates their ability to do much else.

You didn't say how much taller your opponent (training partner) is? Going for the double-hand neck control may not be the way to go. Heck, to be honest you get the most action from the clinch when you're in transitionary position, where you have one hand behind the head and the other hand controlling the bicep (inside or outside).

There's also double-underhooks to get body control, and there are throws & dumps from the clinch. Theres so much you COULD be doing that doesn't require having both of your hands behind his head and pulling down.....

[da_mill]

Khun Kao thanks for the response.

I think it's probably beacuse i dont actually know enough techniques. i can transition decently (against him any way lol) from plum, to one arm underhook which lets me knee to teh liver fine etc.

But apart from that.. i got nothing

you're not the first person to suggest that the transition position allows more striking, which is kind of annoying as all I'd ever been taught was moving from transition, (as in both of you fihgting for inside control) and gaining plum was THE BEST THING EVER. (lols)

Will try more stuff from transitional positions. thanks.

[Cannon_6]

gaining plum was THE BEST THING EVER. (lols)

That's what I thought when I was first learning how to clinch. Then one instructor said something that changed everything:

"Some of you are too fixated on just getting the dominant position. Getting it is nice, but it's not going to win the fight for you. What matters is how much damage you do, and you can do a hell of a lot of damage from other positions, too."

[Ghost]

you dont have to be so fixed on his head coming down, as long as you have control.
you say you can turn him, you have control, sure he can hit you, but you arent kneeing him full power are you, and thats the problem, you feel like you arent "winning" but you arent actually fighting.

When there is a size difference as you describe going for the clinch is not the most sensible choice but it can still be worked and from what you describe it sounds as though you are doing ok.

Just remember to try to not use a one size fits all mentality regarding your thai boxing.
Clinching someone that is a fair bit taller than you isnt always the best idea. you might well do better with striking in close range, where your shorter height will become an advantage for you.


will pm you back later mate. v busy.

[fire cobra]

All good posts above,i agree with Ghost that clinching a tall opponent isnt the best way to go,however i presume you guys are just practicing clinching so as Khun Kao said try to dominate a bicep and head and work some off balances and strikes.

If the guy is uppercuting you try the lower back grip for control and knee the legs.

By the way the double neck grip usually is called "Lock Kor" not Plum which is a term for overall clinch practice.

[nak muay]

For me what works when sparing taller people i tend to keep in close so they dont get the advantage of there reach, then when executing the clinch have the hands (gloves) as clsoe to the crown of the head...not the neck although this is what tends to happend as there is no grip on the head due to the sweat, but you will have more controll over them with the head. keep your elbows in close and not far appart and instead of just throwing knees stright up throw them form side to side smashign your knee in as you drag them down. This will make his first priority on keeping balance before he can worry about how to get out of the clinch.

[da_mill]

By the way the double neck grip usually is called "Lock Kor" not Plum which is a term for overall clinch practice.

Thanks ^ didn't know this before.

Right, did well yesterday. Still not got the swinging hips and moving him thing down, but definitely had a lot of success. I just wasn't too nice, as someone suggested, and laid in some knees on my way into the tie position... only once was I opened up badly to take a straight knee, and only once did I get hit with a succession of body uppercuts lol (He has to set his feet to throw the uppercuts so I just pulled him around whenever he started to throw). Therefore, I managed to keep control quite well, and managed to transition between the head / bicep position, underhook, and 'lock kor'. Often hed throw an uppercut so I'd step and turn, and switch grips, which kept him guessing at the very least. whichever body side i exposed I then kneed...

As cannon said, once I focued on actually gaining good position that wasn't ONLY the double neck tie and kneeing him and moving him around, and more generally ignored what he was doing, I was a lot more successful.

Actually thinking about it now I made a serious mistake - on a jens pulver vid I saw he explains that when you underhook, you should crossface with the other forearm to turn your opp to teh side and down, pushing them straight into a big knee. damn. (I underhooked but just had my glove in his face but didnt really turn him usefully.) But generally it wasn't bad, think its because obv being in an unnatural position you still have to think carefully about what to do lol.

I'm sure now that I've stepped it up next time we clinch he'll step it up also; the session ended with us in a clinch and me turning him, but as I did he dropped into a single leg, so I leant over him and bodylocked him to prevent being dumped on my ass. is that the right thing to do if it's too late to sprawl? It's all good...

(we don't have matts we just train in a hall so it was all good natured stuff, it's nice sparring with people that understand and are not out to kill you and all that.)

[da_mill]

And thanks again for all the comments and advice, v helpful.