technique comparison

[Sieh Tanonchai]

Since there is a thread opened by George about elbow techniques of his teacher I thought it would be nice to have a thread where we can talk in general about techniques and compare them. For the purpose of learning, not to show if anybody is better, this is just about differences and similarities.

I would like to start comparing the elbows of the video posted by George demonstrated by his teacher, what looks really good to me. There is another video I would like you to watch, please pay attention to the shown techniques. Sometimes not easy to see if you do not see the point.
Specially check these: 1:00, 1:05, 1:37, 1:42

YouTube - Applications for MUAI elbow techniques

Now compare them to the elbows of George's Ajarn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCPjZIMWtf8

Aren't they similar? They are different by speed, sure. But when I look to the technique I can see both are based on the same principles, aren't they?

Everybodies opinion is welcome.

Sieh

[george stando]

Sieh
First off, again, learn to read: its not my teacher. Are you 12 years old or just brain dead? It was a thread put up by trusted forum member firecobra of his teacher.

I have no interest in discussing anything further with you so DONT use my name to draw me out. As i said what you cant see as a cult member i cant describe or help you with. You use comparison by illuision to continually validate something you dont understand.

IF you have a further problem with anything i have to say, we can take this to the floor, lets see how good your pahuyuth is in real time, email me or PM personally. Let's see if you walk the walk as good as you talk it.

[Sieh Tanonchai]

Thank you for your hint.
Fire cobra, I mixed up a little, I am sorry for that.

Back to the topic

[fire cobra]

Thank you for your hint.
Fire cobra, I mixed up a little, I am sorry for that.

Back to the topic

No problem Sieh.

When you get right down to it we all have the same movement on our shoulder joint/elbow etc so the angles we can use the elbow at are all going to be the same irrelevant of style(the human style as Bruce Lee said).

And the target areas we can use the elbow to are the same for all of us.

What can differ is how we train them,ie develop speed/power,rhythmn and timing,and the experience we have (or have not) in actually using them against a fully resisting equally skilled fit and strong opponent,which is what Nak Muay do now and have always done.

My teacher by the way did not like elbows.

[tenzen]

lets not forget pressure testing. fighting is a must or you are just dancing. hmmm cinderella how bout a dance?

[the tick]

My teacher by the way did not like elbows.

Neither do I. They often lead to cuts, and thus cut a good fight short.

YouTube - Anuwat VS Mosab Amrani Part 1 (SLAMM 5)
YouTube - Anuwat VS Mosab Amrani Part 2 (SLAMM 5)

[Sieh Tanonchai]

No problem Sieh.

;-)

When you get right down to it we all have the same movement on our shoulder joint/elbow etc so the angles we can use the elbow at are all going to be the same irrelevant of style(the human style as Bruce Lee said).

It is right, humans are just limited by the body restrictions, systematically, e.g. the knee of a leg just moves in one direction (usually, lol).
But how to do the elbow strike differs a lot. You can cover the yes or not, open the hand or close, the way the elbow swings can differ, the targets can differ etc.
In MT based on Pahuyuth you cover your yes or body as good as you can while hitting (this can be trained),
we open the hand in order to reduce injuries (put a hand on the muscle of your elbow-lower-arm and open/close the hand of the arm where you touch the elbow, you feel the difference)
we learned some basic ways for the elbow to swing, but of course we are not restricted to such ways, we can apply the technique to whatever we want
we aim to everything just depending what we would like to attack (...), e.g. shine, hand, head, upper leg, lower leg, inside the leg, outside the leg etc.
we learn to see the defense as a positioning in order to attack better (after we have defended), we do not necessarily defend only not to be hit.

Do you learn the same approach?

And the target areas we can use the elbow to are the same for all of us.

Actually they are 2 areas, isn't it? The known frontside (if you have the arm in front of your body) and the tip.

What can differ is how we train them,ie develop speed/power,rhythmn and timing,and the experience we have (or have not) in actually using them against a fully resisting equally skilled fit and strong opponent,which is what Nak Muay do now and have always done.

Sure, you have to know your tools in order to work with them. :-)

My teacher by the way did not like elbows.

I also do not use them often since many trainers are afraid of wrong use and injuries. Where I learned you just can apply techniques the partner knows, you start using fists, feets, elbows and finally knees (after a long time), so very often you have to fight without elbows at all. But I like this way, it helps you keeping and shape, you can not relax on your preferred techniques if the partner did not reach these techniques yet.

But I guess most of the clinches could be avoided with a proper elbow preparation, do you agree?

Sieh

[Sieh Tanonchai]

Clinch - basic defense 1

A further technique to compare, talk about, recognize or given your opinion about.
But please do not forget to tell us why do you think so.

I rarely see this technique applied, I am talking about the principle.
Do you know this technique? What do you think about, is it practical?

Sieh

[the tick]

I think it is fit for a gay porn movie.

[george stando]

I think the tick has become my new hero.

[fire cobra]

A further technique to compare, talk about, recognize or given your opinion about.
But please do not forget to tell us why do you think so.

I rarely see this technique applied, I am talking about the principle.
Do you know this technique? What do you think about, is it practical?

Sieh

Sieh if your talking about stepping or twisting inside a knee strike its used almost every fight in Thailand.

[kyuss]

Well first off what is the attacker doing his own style?its not muay thai. Look at the clinch position, his two hands are low on the neck, his knee is not generating anything, poor psoture, its poor technique on the attacker that the allows the other guy to make the move. If the other guy moved, it would be sensed by the hands on the neck and you would adjust, thats muay thai> so technique wise the attacker is not doing anything and the responder is doing whatever, its like a two man form not a real technique.
I would say its poor technique on both sides. A muay thai person has a wide arsenal of attack and defend in the clinch, so he has enormous options and now with mma we have endless stuff in the clinch. But primarily the sequence lacks everything that muay thai or mma clinch contains, so i dont know where to begin to show how bad that is but you guys do a great job at that from the looks of it.

[Sieh Tanonchai]

Sieh if your talking about stepping or twisting inside a knee strike its used almost every fight in Thailand.

Yes, the technique is about stepping in towards the opponent. And you are right, many fighters in Thailand know this and you can see them using it.
I would like to get your attention to a simple fact first: how people see the same images with different understanding, just look at the replies.

fire cobra,
But what about Europe and the US etc, how often you see such a technique over here?

kyuss,
this images is a simple form of demonstrating a technique. All movements are reduced to a minimum trying to avoid confusion. The partner is present to show where/how to apply the technique, let's say he is a possible target in a possible (very simple) situation.
The idea is: you can learn how to fight.

Let's look to a different knee technique.

Watching just the technique it looks a kind of useless since you can not imagine what for it is, right? It's theoretical stuff, maybe, but for sure this movement looks strange and I never have it seen in Europe/US.
After the technique is shown you can see an application. It is just a very simple application, but it helps to understand in what kind of situation this technique is useful. Some how you go out of the way of the attack, but at the same time you bring your knee right into the attacker. Note also the movement of the attacker and the knee are opposed, so the more the attacker brings his weight/speed into his attack, the more he gets the knee. Many parts of this shown situation are very flexible, e.g. the knee could hit everywhere like the leg or head.

Could you imagine to apply such a knee strike, maybe in a special situation?

[the tick]

Looks like a dog marking his territory.

[kyuss]

I think the techniques are really bad and without any function. also ifyou fail you are not going to be in a good position. I doubt if any of them can generate enough explosive power. If you fail you will you will be easily defeated. so from my point of view, you are putting yourself in a high fail percentage over a high win percentage. The point seems to be you are trying to make these techns seem unique and they are not unique because there are endless variables to use in these type of situations and these techs seem the long way around or trying to be fancy like chinese wu shu over explosive closing moves.