Importance of Roadwork

[Tom Yum]

It's interesting to note (though a little off topic) that Roger Banister never actually ran a full mile in training when he was training to break the 4 minute mile. He did lots of wind sprints over shorter distances in order to make his cardio endurance as strong as it could be.

I've come to this conclusion by trial and error.

Here's a wikipedia account of Bannister's training:

"As a medical student at St Mary's Hospital, Paddington, Roger Bannister chose to use his lunch hour for a 9 minute jog to Paddington track, where he ran 10 X 400 m in about 60 s (each) with two minutes rest, then he ran back to work. The whole procedure took 46 minutes, leaving him 14 minutes to eat his lunch."

[bigred389]

It's interesting to note (though a little off topic) that Roger Banister never actually ran a full mile in training when he was training to break the 4 minute mile. He did lots of wind sprints over shorter distances in order to make his cardio endurance as strong as it could be.

Excellent point.

Anybody trying to improve speed quickly trains by sprinting.

Chugging out mile after mile at the same easy pace only conditions yourself to get more and more comfortable at that pace.

I've also taken a break from sprint and interval roadwork, and i've also noticed my cardio during training has gone down the tubes. I can't hit with good power for sustained periods of time any more...maybe about 20-30 seconds of full speed per round then I'm forced to go defensive b/c I gas. Not fun.

[Bauer]

I would like to clarify that I was not suggesting training only interval instead of long distance. If you only train interval, you are selling yourself short and the same for distance. I believe that a well-trained fighter would train both.

For you guys out there with knee issues, I know it was said earlier, but the elliptical machine has been a lifesaver for me in the past when I was having knee pain, and it is a great alternative to running. One thing about the elliptical, however, is that you can do a lot more "distance" on it than you can outside, so make sure to crank up the resistance and go until are really gassed out.

I briefly mentioned swimming in one of my previous posts, and am thinking about writing a separate thread about it. Swimming can do so much for your cardiovascular fitness and build on some muscles that are important to MT, most notably the shoulders. Also, if you typically experience any sort of pain, it will not be an issue in the water.

[bigred389]

Yeah - I can totally run in intervals. Even in class, we usually warm up by running in a circle around the perimeter of the mat, and work in calisthenics. That doesn't affect my knees at all, as it's usually fairly low speed, on a mat, and for a short duration.

The times when I run outside, it's usually on a sidewalk/asphalt. I'll give it a try again though, but focus on staying on trails, and softer surfaces.

Thanks for the tips

Just throwing this out there...I had a knee issue as well...made running pretty uncomfortable.

I ended up doing a lot of calisthenics to strengthen the legs(squats, leg raises, flutter kicks) and focused on high speed short distance intervals.
I also focused on running form which reduced impact signifcantly. Pretty soon I moved up from topping out at .5 miles to doing 2 comfortably.

[Rasta]

Yeah - I can totally run in intervals. Even in class, we usually warm up by running in a circle around the perimeter of the mat, and work in calisthenics. That doesn't affect my knees at all, as it's usually fairly low speed, on a mat, and for a short duration.

The times when I run outside, it's usually on a sidewalk/asphalt. I'll give it a try again though, but focus on staying on trails, and softer surfaces.

Thanks for the tips

[Tom Yum]

Anyway, I ended up tearing my miniscus, and had forgo the fight and lay low for a while. And this on-again, off-again process has been pretty prevalent every time I've tried to work long-distance (outside) running into my routine.

I find when I can run, I love it. I love being winded, and being able to keep going, do one more sprint, push just a little harder. But every time I do, I end up doing more damage than good.

Any advice for how to set up a routine that will stay within the bounds so my knees won't rebel?

So you can run intervals but not LD? Are you running on a softer surface - say an asphalt track? The pavement can be hard on some people's knees; when I first started running on pavement I had some shin/knee pain but its gone away.

You might try wrapping your knee as well as getting those gel additions to your shoes?

[Rasta]

Great thread - I have a question to pose though. What sort of advice do you all give to someone with bad knees?

I've been training Muay Thai for almost three years now. Every time I try to work in running outdoors into my routine, I end up sidelining myself for days because of knee pain. A little more than a year ago, I was preparing for a fight, and kicked up my running regimen - specifically my sprints. My instructor gave me some great advice, and I set up my runs around a soccer field - jog around the field a few time to warm up, then sprint the length, jog the width, sprint the length, jog the width, repeat.

Anyway, I ended up tearing my miniscus, and had forgo the fight and lay low for a while. And this on-again, off-again process has been pretty prevalent every time I've tried to work long-distance (outside) running into my routine.

I find when I can run, I love it. I love being winded, and being able to keep going, do one more sprint, push just a little harder. But every time I do, I end up doing more damage than good.

Any advice for how to set up a routine that will stay within the bounds so my knees won't rebel?

[theprophet]

The guy who trains both, and can work like the devil all the way through ten scares me the most.

Common misconception is that training slow-twitch muscle somehow diminishes your fast-twitch. It doesn't. Training one to the exclusion of the other does. If you train both, you'll have both.

I understand that. But in my case, being an amateur MT boxer, I want to be more fast then slow twitch. We fight only three 2 minute rounds at high intensity. In my opinion that screams fast twitch. I am not saying I don't train slow twitch at all, just not nearly as much as fast.

[theprophet]

I try to stay away from long distance running, interval running is what I do. You don't want to train much slow twitch at all, as fighters we need fast twitch IMHO. Who would you rather fight, the guy who can go 10 rounds or the guy who can do 10 rounds worth of work in 5?

[Bauer]

Well I am glad that my first post actually has some replies! And I agree, if Mike runs that much, he could potentially solve our energy independence problem single handedly. I prefer to do my intervals on an elliptical machine or in the pool. I used to swim in high school, and even though I weigh 230lbs, I can still swim like a mofo. If you want to work your shoulders and lats, hop in the pool!

[Patrick G.]

Running is not used to strengthen the legs; it is used to build cardiovascular endurance. The difference between sprinting and distance running, however, is something that none of you should ignore. Running at a constant rate builds the aerobic stamina that you need to remain active for long periods, but doing sprints builds anaerobic endurance, which is important for keeping your intensity up. Anaerobic, in a nutshell, is when your body is burning fuel inefficiently. This happens when you sprint, or explode in motion. It is the difference between jogging and sprinting, or tossing some outside jabs and exploding forward with a rush of punches. You need to train both so that you do not "gas out.”

One training method I would personally recommend is "High Intensity Training.” HIT training is basically interval training. After you do your normal runs, or even during them if you can manage; for a period of at least 15 minutes, sprint for 40 seconds followed by 20 seconds of regular running speed. Do this repeatedly for 15 to 20 minutes and you will take your endurance to new levels.

Hhahaaha, this is EXACTLY the way I run!

And, YES, you hit it right on the head...you have to work on your aerobic and anaerobic systems...two seperate things...."Anaerobic" is basically how your body uses energy without the presence of oxygen and "aerobic" is vice-versa...

I prefer to mix my runs up on both the treadmill and roadwork...I can more precisely measure my sprints, distance, and times on the treadmill, which will in turn help me with my runs on the road...this also puts less wear on my joints, as I plan on being able to fight well into my 80's..he,he...(the shock absorbency of the better professional "gym" style treadmills absorb more impact than even the best running shoes..also they usually have a "speed interval training button that you can preset a jog/run speed to) The only thing is, when I run on the treadmill, I'll run about 20% or so further than I will on the roadwork, since it is a little easier...

When I run, I usually jog the first mile or so to warm up a little, then I mix in 1/4 mile sprint, then jog, then 1/4 mile sprint, etc...I'll do at least (2) 1/4 mile sprints per mile that I run...the very last sprint is not a sprint, but an all out "run" like I stole something...

Oh yeah, and I have an Apple iPod nano/ Nike + running shoes that is one of the coolest things you've probably seen in a while...Basically, the Nike's have a chip that you insert under the sole, and the iPod magically displays your current pace, calories burnt, distance (miles or kilometers), and more, all while your listening to your favorite tunes....the female voice comes on and tells you what your distance and pace are at preset intervals...you can also upload the total run results online and graph it, compare it to other people's runs, etc...

For more info, go to www.nikeplus.com

[Tom Yum]

I'm up to about ten miles a week, split between two five mile runs. Even with that minimal amount of work, my legs are coming back, and my conditioning has improved drastically. I dropped 40 pounds of that extra weight, and I have decent footwork again. Bottom line, don't neglect the road!!

Mike, we need you on the running thread in the fitness section!

[Bauer]

Running is not used to strengthen the legs; it is used to build cardiovascular endurance. The difference between sprinting and distance running, however, is something that none of you should ignore. Running at a constant rate builds the aerobic stamina that you need to remain active for long periods, but doing sprints builds anaerobic endurance, which is important for keeping your intensity up. Anaerobic, in a nutshell, is when your body is burning fuel inefficiently. This happens when you sprint, or explode in motion. It is the difference between jogging and sprinting, or tossing some outside jabs and exploding forward with a rush of punches. You need to train both so that you do not "gas out.”

One training method I would personally recommend is "High Intensity Training.” HIT training is basically interval training. After you do your normal runs, or even during them if you can manage; for a period of at least 15 minutes, sprint for 40 seconds followed by 20 seconds of regular running speed. Do this repeatedly for 15 to 20 minutes and you will take your endurance to new levels.

[Khun Kao]

Ghost....

You need both. As both Octavious and I have mentioned, one of the best approaches (from our EXPERIENCE, nothing scientific backing this up) is to start with long, slow runs. Then over time, shorten the runs by running harder and faster. As you get closer to fight time, you should be running sprints.

Thats if you're fight training or prepping for something like that.

[Ghost]

ive been thinking recently about replacing alot of the long runs with sprints, ive been thinking this based on the relatively short length of a muay thai fight or even a street fight.

anyone got any thoughts on this>?