kicking vs. boxing stance

[patience]

I was recently training with one of my friends who asked me when do you go from the kicking stance to the boxing stance? I basically told him that you switch it up when you move in close. For example if you enter with a kick and then close the distance you would want to switch to a boxing stance so your punches have more power. But I also told him that sometimes I just compromise and I end up throwing punches from the kicking stance and kicking from the boxing stance. Does any else have any feedback?

[swan104]

Whats a kicking stance? Wouldn't it be easier to just use one stance altogether?

What martial art do u do?

[terry]

Patience, I agree with your rule of thumb. I have seen some interesting exceptions. I was watching a couple of old fights of Apideh Sit Hurin (essentially the Mohammed Ali of Muay Thai), and he used a boxing stance at kicking range. He said that he used it as a draw.

T

[Lost Ronin]

Re: kicking vs. boxing stance

Originally posted by patience
I was recently training with one of my friends who asked me when do you go from the kicking stance to the boxing stance? I basically told him that you switch it up when you move in close. For example if you enter with a kick and then close the distance you would want to switch to a boxing stance so your punches have more power. But I also told him that sometimes I just compromise and I end up throwing punches from the kicking stance and kicking from the boxing stance. Does any else have any feedback?

Gotta agree with Swan here, what exactly do you mean by "kicking stance"? There is a way to compromise between both of them and have a stance that can be used for punching and for kicking, check out Jeet Kune Do or Muay Thai. If you have to keep switching stances in a fight it can get pretty messy, not to mention that you are not able to employ all your tools from any position whenever they are needed. That, is the main objective of a stance, to give you maximum mobility and the ability to use all if not most of your weapons.

[Khun Kao]

I, too, agree with Swan.

But I also believe that its a matter of personal preference. I have learned a number of variations of the Muay Thai basic stance. Some favor Kicking, some favor Boxing, and some favor neither.

Each stance is effective for certain scenarios and/or fighting strategys. Your choice of stance will depend on how you fight and how your opponent is fighting.

For instance, my *typical* stance is one that favors neither Boxing or Kicking. Its a semi-upright stance with the fighters weight slightly towards the rear (60/40 to 70/30 split) so that the front leg is easily brought up to defend or attack, and the hands are held high and slightly in front of the face (not quite as tight as your typical "Boxing" guard). By semi-upright, I mean that you're not standing straight up as you do in some Muay Thai stances, but you're not in a full Boxers crouch.

This is a good all-around basic stance, but if I had to choose one overall 'weakness', it would be that the stance is not designed for mobility. Yes, you can move effectively forward & backward, as well as laterally, but not much. If you are a fighter who likes to hit-n-run, and make your opponent swing and miss, this is NOT the stance to use.

If I want to move around a lot, I switch between an upright stance (which favors kicking) or a crouched stance, which favors Boxing. The Upright Stance for Kicking ranges between being 50/50 to 60/40 weight distribution with the guard held in a more extended manner. The Boxing stance is crouched with a 50/50 weight distribution and the guard held tight at jaw level.

In any event, you will probably experiment with a number of variations of the stance and settle on one, two, or maybe three different stances that you are comfortable using.

Khun Kao

[darrianation]

There is some good advice here. I stick with one stance.

[terry]

Hmmm...much more confusion surrounding this discussion than I had anticipated. I'm aware that many Muay Thai camps only have the kicking stance and lack a boxing stance. Kru Brooks, we're probably just using different terminology. (I would be very surprised if you guys didn't use a basic kicking stance in your Muay Thai.) Suffice it to say that in the camp I come from there are two stances: boxing and kicking. Each can be used for both, but each is optimized for just one. Good guys are very efficient at switching and, no, it is not an encumbrance. It is an advantage when you know how to use it.

As to the guys w/o a MT background, would one of the seniors care to explain the basics of both stances? I don't have the time. I'll put something up on the TBA web page when I get the chance so we can refer to it in a FAQ.

T

[patience]

swan,
I study Muay Thai. As Terry wrote any seniors who can give a good explanation of the kicking stance and boxing stance I would welcome it. But in the mean time I will try to explain what I mean. When I am in the kicking stance my body is more squared towards my opponent. instead of my rear leg being far back, like a boxer, I move it up. My body is less bladed. I learned that by kicking in this position it is much more powerful than kicking in the boxing stance. In the boxing stance I feel the leg had to travel further and would sacrifice some of its power do to the position my body was in(i.e. being more bladed). (If this is confusing and anyone can help clarify I would appreciate it. It is a lot easier to demonstrate than to write it.)
Let me continue. When I want to throw punches I feel that having my rear leg back further with a deeper stance, like a boxer, I can generate more power. As I stated before I sometimes compromise and end up kicking and punching in both stances.
It is not that these stances are so different or hard to switch that it confuses someone when they are fighting. I find it is a question more about efficiency. Getting the best position to generate the most power, speed, etc.
I hope this makes it a little clearer.

patience

[chalambok]

Well, time for me to stir the shit again I see. How you fight is very much determined by your opponent, although traditionally in muay Thai we try to do our thing and ignore what the opponent is doing. When he moves toward our back leg we can kick easier, when he moves toward our front leg (circling around us in each instance) we can box easier. But again, like everyone else has said, we can do either movement out of either stance. Your kicks are stronger from a kicking stance, which means our bodies are pretty much parallel with our opponent. Your punches are stronger when you are sideways and can push forward off your back leg for power. The crux is when you train. You practice kicking the pads and the banana bag from a kicking stance, which means if you lay a yardstick along the inside of your front foot and extend it, it should be outside the heel of your opponent's leg which is on the same side. This will keep you square to him. Likewise if you are kicking the banana bag, your front foot should point outside the bag before you begin your pivot. When you box you can have a variety of foot placements, but perhaps most easy is the stalker stance, which has the front foot pointing straight at your opponent and your back foot at a 90 degree angle. Many people then move to a more mobile stance with both feet pointing kind of 45 degrees, the lead foot pointing through the center of your opponent's stance; it is a matter of choice. But when you train you should train with perfect form for that movement, hence you should kick from a kicking stance and box from a boxing stance. A good boxing habit is to make sure your punch is shot in the direction of your foot when you jab, and the back heel will either turn or lift for the thrust when you throw your rear hand. And of course, practice shooting right down the barrel of the gun, protect yourself against the counterpunch by putting your head against your shoulder like you would while aiming a rifle. Also please note that zI have not addressed the tactics of range, which also will help to dictate your stance. Larger fighters many times will fight solely from a boxing stance, like Apidej Sit Harun or Maurice Smith or Dennis Alexio; but smaller fighters will use both. I have yet to figure this out. And does anyone know what the bartender said to the horse? Why the long face? Have fun

[retired]

I have found that in thaiboxing a lot of people tend to be more square on than a boxer & when sparring with a boxer have had to take a more side on stance to cut down the amount of punches getting in though the front angles, although we just train at about a 45' angle to forwards to enable the use of kicks as apposed to the boxer who tucks in more as he doesn't have to worry or use his legs, i think what you mean by the kicking stance as the completly side on stance which i have only seen used in kickboxing & semi-contact point fights.

found these
light contact stance:

http://www.offence-mag.co.uk/training-advice.htm

kickboxing stance:

http://www.combatsportskc.com/techniques.htm

Thaiboxing stance:

http://www.wmtc.nu/html/wmc03_mttips.html

[Khun Kao]

terry...

I think it is just a difference of terminology, because we seem to all be saying the same things. I'll try explaining what I mean with the stances, though. I'll apologize in advance for the differences in terminology.

BOXING STANCE: weight distribution is 50/50. You are in a slight crouch so that you head is ahead of your 'centerline' towards your lead knee. Your guard is held tight to your body, elbows in to protect your ribs, and hands by the side of your jaw. Your feet are parallel and at an angle to your opponent. Your body, too, is at a angle to your opponent. As mentioned by both 'patience' and 'chalambok'. Usually about a 45 degree turn, sometimes deeper.

This stance favors Boxing techniques over kicking. As an example, I like to use this stance against someone who is either mobile, or has a reach advantage over me. It enables me to move around my opponent easily and use my hands to lead into my kicks. The reason why I like to do this is because I do not have fast kicks. So I like to use my Boxing to setup my Kicks and other techniques.

Successful Thai fighters who used this stance were Gan-Sak and Samson Isaan.

KICKING STANCE: weight distribution varies from 50/50 up to 70/30. The body is held upright with your weight on your back foot. Your head is either over your 'centerline' , or just slightly behind in towards your rear foot. The front foot is kept 'light', and often the boxer will 'tap' it up and down. This 'tapping' motion serves the purpose of keeping the foot in motion so that when the foot/leg needs to be moved, it is easier to do so. This tapping can also serve as a distraction to mask your intentions from your opponent.

The front foot is usually pointed straight forward, and the back foot is pointed outwards at an angle. Though this stance is typically less mobile than the Boxing Stance, you can also move/dance around your opponent effectively from this stance. Fighters using this stance typically stand more squared up to their opponents, with their bodies at less than a 45 degree angle to their adversary. This stance favors kicking first, leading into boxing. Especially lead leg push kicks and round kicks as setups for rear leg kicks.

Successful Thai fighters who used this stance were Ananda-Sak and Rambah M-16.

Mostly every other stance falls somewhere between these two extremes. Most fighters seem to favor one variation of the stance over the others, while some change their stance to suit their needs. It really depends on how you are comfortable fighting.

As an example, I have listed Rambah M-16 above as a fighter who used a kicking stance. I have listed him because when he was at kicking range, his stance was textbook perfect. But, when he closed the distance and got inside kicking range, he would switch to a Boxing stance.

Khun Kao

[crazyjoe380]

a boxer will try to get ont he outside of you .. so your face can open to his power shot.. you gotta keep attacking with that leg kick.. everytime a boxer goes on the outside..

waaaaaaaam!

punish him.. keep him almost squared off with u.. he is gonna take ur head off but u keep the fight your way not his way..
he gonna circle your power hand but dont matter.. ur good with both legs.. keep that muay thai clinch.. knee knee knee..
he goes off, bam, punish his leg.. take away his will to fight ...

[NuffSpeed]

In the muay thai gym I train at, they simply call it a "European" or "western" stance, or a "Thai" stance. The european or western stance is a "boxing" stance, and the "Thai" stance is what you call the kicking stance.