Flexibility and MT

[poisonarrow]

Hi, first post .

I'm thinking about training in MT, my first MA, but through months of treadmill/bike, I'm not that flexible. I can't do either of the splits, but can still kick to head height. Is this enough?

[terry]

Sure.

[Khun Kao]

If you can kick someone in the head, do you NEED to be any more flexible? Outside of basic overall flexibility, what more do you need?

Khun Kao

[terry]

If Muay Thai were an animal style, it would be the pitbull style. We go for the leg first. Then go for the neck. No need to kick much higher than the neck IMO.

Terry

[retired]

Flexibility cuts the chance of injury from tearing or pulling muscle/ligament.
Even though we stretch a lot, actually kicking to the head puts you more at risk of counter than any technique as your in the most weakest stance for an instant, but people think it's the "bees knees" to be able to do it, me personally if i had to defend my self outside i would go for a leg kick as it's much safer (the last thing you want is to be is on your arse with the guy looking down on you) & can still do a lot of damage.
A lot of people who aren't fantastic stretchers can still kick someone in the head as this is like a dynamic stretch where the leg is only at head height for a moment.

My KO Headkick:

http://www.theapproachingstorm.com/thailand/forumpics/knockout1.wmv

Stretching:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7313&highlight=stretching

warmup exercises:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7454&highlight=stretching

[darrianation]

Dude don’t worry about being able to do the splits. Terry, khun kao, and retired have all given the best advice. Some people are just naturally more limber than others. I stretch every day some times twice a day I have never been able to do the splits. Hell I can barley touch my toes anymore (don’t laugh I’m old). However I don’t believe this has ever effected negatively on the way I fight.

Of course this doesn’t mean abandon stretching. You want to be the most flexible that you can be, but keep in mind that you’re stretching to reduce injury among other things that don’t have to do with touching your knee to your forehead.

To become more limber you need to stretch correctly. The best time to stretch for flexibility is at the end of your workout when your muscles are warmed and loose.

The advice I give is to (what ever stretch your doing) Go down till’ you feel the stretch but not painful). Hold until the stretched feeling subsides or diminishes then go down further, then keep repeating until you cant down anymore without pain.

[platinum_angel]

flexibility is always good to have when doing martial arts

[retired]

darrianation
I unfortunatelly disagree with "The best time to stretch for flexibility is at the end of your workout when your muscles are warmed and loose" as i do a lot of static stretching which can be done at anytime even cold, the most important thing is to have a good limbering/loosening up session before you do any heavy stretching.
Because of my injury's i cannot do any jumping or jogging etc...so i join in with the limbering up with leg swings & when the class starts i go straight into my stretching although i do agree with you that you get the best maximum results after a good workout & your sweating a lot but this is mixed into my stretching which is probablly why i had quick results.

I start with a quick limber/warmup (5-10 min) then do some stretching (15-20min) then maybe some pad work using my left knee heavy but my injured right knee light with punch combo's (20min) i cant kick for a while yet, or i would do some heavy punching on bag for same amount of time, then go back to some stretching to finish off & maybe try to stetch to maximum (the maximum varies depending on what muscles used).

If you have a lesson with lots of kicks & squats etc... you can find that your legs are a lot tighter at end of lesson & wont stretch as far this is why i may have 2-3 days a week just on stretching to increase maximum but rest for 1 day with others for training.

[Cain]

hmm, stretching and flexibility is very important to prevent injuries and to become faster, if your muscle-tonus is too high and you are stiff you won't get the same amount of speed (and then.. power) in your techniques. And only 4% of the population is physically unable to get into the splits, the 96% of us that do, is fully able to get down into the splits with more or less work.

[darrianation]

Retired

I wasn’t as detailed as I should of been on my last reply. Actually I was very detailed but just as I was finishing my computer crashed and I lost my post. When I got over my frustration and started again I didn’t write everything I had before. I left some stuff out I was in a hurry. My computer has been giving me a lot of problems lately.

However my thesis still stands. It is true that anytime is a good time to stretch. Always stretch before a workout (after you do a warm up of course). Again stretch after the workout. You disagreed that after the workout is the best time to stretch for flexibility.
But even you said after your workout “then go back to some stretching to finish off & maybe try to stretch to maximum”. So we do agree here. After a workout we can stretch further than cold or after a light warm up. After the workout is when the muscles are most primed to stretch.

You made a point about muscle tightness after an intense leg workout. Yes you’re right this is the exception to the rule. After heavy leg workouts Specially when weights are involved the leg muscles are tight and not as flexible. It is very important to stretch at this time but you wont get the maximum effect for flexibility. However if you do a cool down before you stretch (light jog, or brisk walk, or light shadow boxing, etc) then the muscles wont be as tight.

I often shadow box to warm up then again to cool down. I also stretch for 5min twice a day while at work. These are cold stretches I keep it light and just stretch hamstrings, calfs, and groin. For pre workout warm-ups I either jog, jump rope, or jog in place any where from 10-to 30-min. I do full body stretches (arms/shoulders, neck, back, legs, etc). After a workout I concentrate mostly on legs, with max stretches. I work slowly. I go till’ I feel the stretch but no pain, I hold until the feeling goes away or almost gone. Then I go deeper and keep repeating until I can’t go any father without it hurting then I know I’m done.

Different people have different approaches and routines. As long as its not causing them problems and works then what can I say?

[retired]

yes i agree we say roughlly the same thing but with different words, i like to cold stretch regularlly & mix it in with trainiing & get my best stretch results when iv'e had an average physical session but if a heavy phisical one then my stretching drops dramatically.
Have you tryed standing up with your legs say 1/4 of the way towards box splits then push your legs hard together with your leg muscle as if you want to bring them together (they dont mind) for 10 sec's, then relax the muscles & drop a little then hold for 20 sec's relaxed then repeat the cycle until you go down to your max (deep breathing inc).

[darrianation]

Originally posted by retired
yes i agree we say roughlly the same thing but with different words, i like to cold stretch regularlly & mix it in with trainiing & get my best stretch results when iv'e had an average physical session but if a heavy phisical one then my stretching drops dramatically.
Have you tryed standing up with your legs say 1/4 of the way towards box splits then push your legs hard together with your leg muscle as if you want to bring them together (they dont mind) for 10 sec's, then relax the muscles & drop a little then hold for 20 sec's relaxed then repeat the cycle until you go down to your max (deep breathing inc).

No. They don’t sound to fun either. But I've done squats that are similar to that.

You are a maniac. I've seen the pics you had of the wrist push-ups and the series on stretching. Those are pretty standard stretches and I do all of those except the box ones and sitting on floor touching my head to my knees(to hard on my back even with proper form). I do other stretches too; as I'm sure you do from time to time.

Maybe I’ll give your box split stretches a go when I stretch next.

[retired]

darrianation
"(to hard on my back even with proper form)".

yeah you gotta be carefull cause i get this problem when i do loads of stretching & when i examined my exercises i was doing lots were the back was bending forwards (covers 75%) & i wasn't doing enough of the arches the other way like in my stretching thread No. 7 & 8, 16 & 17.

nice to hear from someone who actually enjoys stretching!!!

[eXcessiveForce]

I have taught many people how to get to the splits. The oldest was 60 years old. It has been found that older people increase their lifespan if they are flexable. Mostly because it helps from taking injuries from falls. And a broken hip is considered a life threatening injury for someone over 60.

Splits are the end all be all of stretching but flexability is very important and can be increased dramatically in most people if done correctly.

The following is part of a post I made in a different thread to help someone with gaining flexability. The same principles can be used in other stretches.




Okay Here we go.

First it is important to follow some simple rules if you want to increase flexibility.

1. Stretch before working out to avoid injury.
2. Stretch after working out to improve flexability.
3. All movements should be done slowly while stretching.
4. Never Bounce "balistic stretching" you will get gains but will increase the risk of injury dramatically.
5. Do not force a muscle to go beyond its range of motion.
6. Expect pain but it should not be extreme.
7. If you suffer a pulled or strained muscle rest a few days before attempting to stretch for flexability again.



First stretch

Sit on the floor with both legs directly in front of you both feet should be touching. Pull your self down to your knees using your arms. (if this is difficult wrap a rope or belt around your feet and use that to pull down.) Then pull the feet to the left side using the belt and then to the right. This should be done as follows.
Hold position for 5 minutes or until pain subsides. Then pull down until chest is against the knees. Try not to arch your back. continue this for as long as you want up to about 30 minutes DO not bend knees

Second,

Sit on your feet in the kneeling position. and simply lie back until you are lying on the floor. Do this very slowly until you are sure you can do this with out injury. Hold position until pain subsides and go further down. Hold for 1 to 5 minutes once you are able to lie all the way down on the floor. (if you have knee problems be very careful with this stretch)

Third.

Sit on the floor put legs as far apart as possible. Place left arm behind you palm flat on the floor put right arm in front palm on floor. Lift yourself and slide your left heel straight out as far as you can. Hold position and place both hands behind palms flat.
Keep back straight and lower down to the middle until chest is flat to floor then go down over the left and right legs. Hold for 5 minutes or until pain subsides. Then swith hands left hand in front right hand behind. Lift and slide the right heel out straight.
Make sure to keep the other leg stationary. Repeat above.
I have gotten people in there 60's down to the spilts this way with in a month. NOTE: after you are done stretching pull yourself backwards and let your legs come together then use your hands to lift them up at the knees and shake them a bit to warm them up before standing.
Do not bend knees DO NOT BOUNCE!!!!!

fourth stretch.

Sit and place both soles of your feet together. pull the feet towards you and push down on your knees until they touch the floor. Then try to put your nose to the floor.



fifth stretch

Stand place legs together. place left leg behind right and pull yourself down to touch your toes. then switch legs and repeat.
Do not bend knees any more than necessary.

sixth.

Sit on floor one leg out straight. On leg off to the side and bent behind. pull down over leg that is straight until your chest touches your knee. Then lay back until your back is on the floor. You will have one leg straight down and one leg pulled under you and slightly to the side when you are laying back. Switch.

[retired]

you'll have to explain the third stretch more?