just a little help

[TheOne]

Hi my name is Jon and I am 17. I was interested in this form of martial arts but I just have a few questions. First of all I have had a few months of training of taekwondo and I liked it, but I needed something more challenging not that I want to get beat up or anything. I have taken off like a year or so and I am definetily rusty not that I was real good or anything, I was a beginner actually. I was curious if this fighting style is for me though. I'm looking for a really good martial arts, the best of the best type of thing. Is this what that is? To be honest with you I'm not really informed about thai kickboxing but am very interested, just need a little convincing. Second, I live in Norman, Oklahoma and I was wondering if you guys could help me find a good instructor, if there is one. Thanks for all your help!

[Tom Yum]

Taekwondo has some nice kicks: The side kick, axe kick and spinning back kick are good if done with speed and power. Those kicks are not thrown in thaiboxing but are good to know. They are however thrown in american kickboxing.

American kickboxing attracts a lot of different fighters from different styles. Guys who get tired of semi-contact or point sparring in karate/tkd/kung fu get into it. Amatuer boxers seem to have a natural ability to do well. They are used to contact and only have to learn a few kicks well, whereas tkd/karate/kung fu guys have to learn boxing offensive/defensive skills which are not part of their art and take longer to perfect.

Thai boxing is a different art. Most local schools let you spar, with light/med contact once u get the basics unless you are preparing for a fight (good luck!). Thai boxing uses the full body as a target from which to deliver strikes from the foot, shin, knee, fist, and elbows. Thai boxing is a lot more physically demanding. Emphasis is on developing power, stamina and toughness whereas American kickboxing puts a little more emphasis on speed, cardio and footwork.

When american kickboxers fight, its allmost like a boxing match, except you see front, round and side kicks (thrown above the waist). Some guys try to win by points and ring strategy while others go for landing solid shots for KO. Thaiboxers go straight at it! They throw devistating kicks to their opponents thighs, clinch and knee, throw elbows and sometimes punch. It looks more like a brawl. Not much ring strategy or footwork, but they slug it out until someone is out cold or badly hurt. Most american kickboxers who try to fight thaiboxers get beaten pretty badly, with a few exceptions (Peter Cunningham, Manson Gibson).

[Khun Kao]

"Thaiboxers go straight at it! They throw devistating kicks to their opponents thighs, clinch and knee, throw elbows and sometimes punch. It looks more like a brawl. Not much ring strategy or footwork, but they slug it out until someone is out cold or badly hurt."

Sorry, I have to dispute what you say here.

Yes, Thai boxers fighting style is devestating, but they don't just "go at it". No more than a Western Boxer will go out in the middle of the ring in round 1 and just start throwing with reckless abandon.

To an untrained eye, Muay Thai will look like a brawl, but regarding no ring strategy or footwork, that is completely incorrect. They don't just slug it out to outlast one another. That is for fighters who have no real skill to speak of.

Muay Thai has a LOT of footwork and strategy involved. Much of the footwork is very subtle due to the fact that Muay Thai is a ring sport. Fights are judged on which fighters fight better, not which fighter runs and dances around better.

Strategy is VERY important. It may not seem that there is much being employed, but each strike is designed to setup another strike. You attack an opponents legs to slow him down so he can't move. You attack his body to destroy his stamina and get him to lower his guard. You attack his guard to prevent him from punching, elbowing, or even guarding properly. These are just the most EXTREME BASICS of Muay Thai strategy.

Khun Kao

[TheOne]

Okay, my bro said the same thing about muay thai that they just kinda duke it out until one goes downand the videos I saw do kinda look like that. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for more of a block and then attack type of thing. Like take advantage of their mistakes, but an all around thing. Like they teach you how to punch/kick/throw/grab/ and deal with weapons as far as how to use them and deal with a person who has them. But I want more than just defense I want to know how to fight well basically. Like the matrix, but I'm not really for kung fu unless it really is the matrix type of fighting. Sorry, I got to relate everything to the matrix.

[Tom Yum]

No, I agree with you. I know that they generally throw leg kicks to soften their opponents in the first few rounds, and eventually go to the knees and elbows for KO. Its the same principal as american boxing/kick boxing. Most beginners go for head shots, but more experienced boxers will work the body to tire the guy and then pick and choose head shots.

I have never fought in a full-contact muay thai match, but the use of knees and elbows makes guys go down so quick and so it seems like they go for the kill.

I wasn't suggesting that muay thai is not an art; I was saying that its so brutal with knees and elbows that most matches probably end in a ko.

[Tom Yum]

TheOne, Thaiboxing is more realistic than the matrix; sorry to tell you that. Its the most effective stand-up fighting art there is. The movies are coreographed to look cool, but don't hold much water in real-life.

[ryanhall]

Kickboxing does not deal with weapons--how to use them or how to protect yourself from one. Most arts don't. You would be better off not learning most of those that do, as their defenses are nonsense and will get you killed--there are obviously a few exceptions. If you want to learn how to fight, take up Muay Thai. An elbow or a knee is worth quite a few punches, and you won't break your striking surface either. And stop watching The Matrix if you want to learn to fight for real.

[retired]

tom yum
you say about thaiboxing "Its the most effective stand-up fighting art there is", well iv'e been doing it for years & it is very effective but there are other MA's that are just as powerfull or more effective on the street.
If i have very powerfull kicks they mean nothing if the fight is taken to the floor.
The best MA for the street is cross-trained & not just one style, if you stick to one style you end up only practicing to defend against one style, this is the fault with most MA in that they stay in their own protective bubble where they know what the rules are, on the street there are no rules so only training in one style unless it has been adapted for the street will mean nothing, this is why our thai instructor mixes in self defence into our curriculum.
Most of the thaiboxing taught now is adapted for the ring & not for the street which is why we train with some of the old techniques like in Khun Kao Charuads's book "the art of fighting".
This is why some of the TRUE old style kungfu like Dragonfist dont kick above the waist as it just puts you at risk & sticks to the really nasty stuff like eye/throat gouging.

[Crouchtig]

you cant run up walls

you cant dodge bullets

you cant kill soneone with one move

you will never be able to fight matrix-style unless you train in a completely unrealistic style where you go into slow motion, let the other person hit you then telegraph a few punches so that they can block then get them to hold you up so you can run along the dojo wall

it will look incredible

you wont be able to use it on the streets

[Tom Yum]

True I am biased. I'll admit it. I don't train in traditional muay thai; I'm learning more of a ring fighting system which is considerably less deadly than the old-school stuff (i looked at some of those photos on that other post)

Its not necessary to be the most brutal on the street; just effective. If I can push kick a guy alot bigger than myself, make him fold over and knock him back a few feet and gives me a chance to run the hell away, I think its effective. This was one of the only confrontations I was involved in. The kid who assaulted my friend and myself was probably only 17 or 18, talked a lot of smack and had a lot to prove. He threw an overhand that knocked my friend down and was going to pound him until I stepped in. He threw three punches at my head (they seemed slow) but I was going through a major adrenaline rush and kept my head a moving target, with my hands up. He never connected, one of the punches grazed my guard and it was weaker than what I had expected (considering how muscular and big this kid was). And I landed the push kick, and he fell into back into his homies. They were kind of frozen and we ran the hell away. If they had jumped in, I'm not sure what I would have done.

When I think about it I could have thrown a low round house to his thigh or got in close to throw elbows, but I forgot that I was fighting and acted on auto drive. I hate fighting outside of the ring. I'll never go back to that shopping center for a while.

[Tom Yum]

Retired,

Did you study traditional animal kung-fu? I think alot of people on this forum would challenge its effectiveness. What is it like?

[retired]

I never trained in Dragonfist but had some friends who had & i used to watch them, Dragonfist kungfu works a bit like wing-chun with lots of small close in movements like when you ward the punch away by rotating your wrist with your hand shaped like a snake but after the circler movement the hand is in the correct position to grab the wrist & pull the punch further on through its trajectory while you punch with the other & they defend their groin by turning the toes inward towards each other so as to bring the knees together closing up the front.
A lot of conditioning is involved with strikeing different bags with the final one being full of steel ball bearings.
Because of the conditioning & training they have very big forearms & defensive techniques, they have techniques which strenthen your fingers to use like a claw to attack different parts of the body like the face.
They do the lion/dragon dance seen in chinese culture which has very hard training to use the lion, which they have to squat jump up onto very high barrels for when they do the traditional dance were they may enter a restaurant & they have to collect a charm/money bag which will be placed in a very high place within the room & they have to stand on their partners shoulders inside the lion to collect it while dancing.
(all these facts are subject to differing opinion/views)

[swan104]

Originally posted by TheOne
Okay, my bro said the same thing about muay thai that they just kinda duke it out until one goes downand the videos I saw do kinda look like that. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for more of a block and then attack type of thing. Like take advantage of their mistakes, but an all around thing. Like they teach you how to punch/kick/throw/grab/ and deal with weapons as far as how to use them and deal with a person who has them. But I want more than just defense I want to know how to fight well basically. Like the matrix, but I'm not really for kung fu unless it really is the matrix type of fighting. Sorry, I got to relate everything to the matrix.

Unfotunately, we don't have a slo-mo "bullet cam" if we do get into a fight. I think what you're after is completeness in fighting, and the ability to adapt. In my opinion, the only way you're going to get that is by cross-training and researching into other systems. To me, that makes martial arts a way of life!!

There are a lot of good systems out there that are excellent for different siuations, such as Muay Thai, boxing, JKD etc. A good thing to do is to look at various clubs around you, and then start eliminating the ones you like and dislike.

[TheOne]

Thanks for all the responses, but when I was referring to the matrix I wasn't talking about the doging bullets and all that impossible stuff. I was referring to the blocking. I was interested in a MA that was great for blocking and attacking. I was doing some research on other MAs and found jeet kune do - bruce lee's way of fighting, and from what I read is that like custom fighting? Cause that sounds cool.

[retired]

Bruce Lee was an expert cross-trainer & adapted parts of different Martial Arts & weight traing etc....for his own & others gain.