San Shou

[Tom Yum]

I sparred a student from a Houston San Shou gym. Anywho, the guy has fought in the ISKF Strikeforce event, which I guess is the professional American San Shou league.

People talk down about San Shou, but after sparring a few rounds with this guy, there was some serious schooling goin on. First off, he was very quick on his feet for a light-heavy weight. He would bob and weave under some of my hooks. His kicking was good, but helass his shin conditioning was mediocre when I blocked some of his low roundhouses. He also threw sidekicks which kept me at bay. Boxing skills were tight. Then he sweeped up one of my counter cut kicks and drove me into the mat with a single leg take-down. It really caught me off guard. Overall, he kept a lot of pressure on me; I side stepped and landed some good roundhouses to the thigh and a nice shovel hook to the kidney. He nearly killed me with some hard side kicks to my gut. I wanted to puke.

So what do you guys think about San Shou who have seen matches or fought against it? Some say it is watered down muay thai, but there have been some successful competitors (i.e Cung Le). Not to mention you have to try and not get taken down during a clinch.

[Khun Kao]

I have nothing but respect for San Shou. I have taken my guys to participate in a Muay Thai/San Shou/Kickboxing event in NYC. One of my MT guys had Judo experience and got in the ring for a San Shou match. It was a really exciting match. The San Shou guys regularly train for and compete in Muay Thai while their sport grows. I have seen San Shou guys go toe-to-toe with Thai stylists and win. Do NOT underestimate San Shou fighters....

I am not a proponent of the camp that states that San Shou is "watered down Muay Thai", or the camp that states that San Shou is "just Boxing with MT Kicks and Judo Throws". All the techniques that some people claim that the Chinese robbed from other sports actually do exist in the various Chinese systems. Boxing, throws, knees, elbows, roundhouse kicks with the shins... These techniques are not exclusive to any one art. Its just that Boxing perfected fighting with fists, Judo perfected the art of throwing, and Muay Thai perfected the art of kicking, kneeing, and elbowing. Just because the Chinese also use these same techniques does not mean that they stole them.

San Shou and San Da have been around for a long time, but they have only recently been developed into ring sports. The reason that these arts in many ways resemble Muay Thai is because the simple reason is that the Chinese are discovering what techniques are effective in the ring vs. which techniques are not. They also have a shorter learning curve than the Thai's did because they can examine and study other kickboxing styles to see what is working most effectively in the ring and what is not.

Sorry for my rant, but I have run into a LOT of San Shou/Sanda bashing and so I wanted to throw this out first. I like and really appreciate San Shou and Sanda, but the bottom line is that I'm still a Thai boxer first and foremost.

Khun Kao

[Great Sage]

Despite people saying that San Shou did not come from Muay Thai, I still feel that it developed in response to Muay Thai. Consider that during the 50’s the Chinese believed Gung-fu to be the most deadly art, capable of defeating any martial arts. Unfortunately for the Chinese, their pride was put to shame when their best Gung-fu men could not defeat Thai Boxers.

Some decades later, San Shou appears with almost the same techniques found in Muay Thai and challenges Muay Thai. The irony of it all is this: Gung-fu fighters practice all sorts of fancy forms and techniques, but when they spar the techniques are like Muay Thai and without tiger or crane strikes.

A Discover Channel episode confirms all this. Young Chinese are taught Tiger/Crane/Dragon forms and techniques, but when they spar, none of the fancy techniques are used. Instead, they’re doing San Shou. What’s the whole point of learning kung-fu, if you need to use San Shou to fight? Why not just learn San Shou, or Muay Thai from the get go?...

So you see, San Shou did originate from Muay Thai. The Chinese knew that no matter how hard they practiced traditional kung-fu, it would never be functional enough to defeat boxing or Muay Thai, so they decided to incorporate both into their art — San Shou.

[crazyjoe380]

mixed martial arts.. i love it

[darrianation]

I don’t know much about it I just recently heard about it myself. From what I've seen and heard I am very impressed. The Chinese needed to do something, their MA have been seriously suffering for a long time. What they came up with is pretty good. Now if they can just get their act together and come up with one good international organization that will be reputable San Shou can go a long way.

Did you see the thread the Thai’s vs. the Chinese? There is some stuff in there about it.