MT vs. SANSHOU

[Muay Thai Guy]

There are Muay Thai fighters winning the K-1 World Max and no San-Shoe

Ok let me put it to yous this way K-1 World Max in Japan is where the very best and I mean the best fighters in this world compete in a tournment to see who is the best top of the line fighter. And what do you know a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand named Buakaw Por. Pramuk went and won it all for the $100,000 bank. And I didn't see any san-show fighters in it because the aint good enough to have a world event yet. San-Show is not bad I was just laying it down with the facts that Muay Thai is the ultimate fighting style ever Mcay

[Boxiados]

Ok let me put it to yous this way K-1 World Max in Japan is where the very best and I mean the best fighters in this world compete in a tournment to see who is the best top of the line fighter. And what do you know a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand named Buakaw Por. Pramuk went and won it all for the $100,000 bank. And I didn't see any san-show fighters in it because the aint good enough to have a world event yet. San-Show is not bad I was just laying it down with the facts that Muay Thai is the ultimate fighting style ever Mcay

I agree with you! To add that beside its effectivness, Muay Thai is by far the most fashionable and stylish combat sport... Enough said!

[GonzoStyles]

http://crane.50megs.com/index.html

scroll down to see various histories of Muay Thai versus many styles
some good info , but basically it seems to me to be modified Muay Thai with more throws and no thai style knee clinching which was actually added during the modern history of muay thai once it moved into the western style rules (Gloves, etc) from about the 1950's onward.
In my opinion the strikes are essentially Muay Thai with a few exceptions (Cung's scissor kick being the most notable) and as usual its going to depend on the rules that are being fought and the rules you have competed under plus the usual who brought what to the ring that day.

[Little Apple]

I'm sure that this post will not make anyone stop bickering and chill out, but this whole thing reminds me of when I first started grapling. Someone asked what the best hold was, like, the one that you could really use. The answer they got was that the question did not apply to real life. It depends entierly on who's fighting, where, and exactly what their bodies are doing at that single moment.
I would imagine that the same applies to styles. I've been doing Martial Arts for about 6 years, right now a lot of MT, and I have no doubt that my friend Shawn, a 12 year Kung Fu etc guy, could wipe the floor with me. At the same time, I'm pretty sure that Shawn would look like road kill after going up against a guy I just saw test for associate instructor. If Dude A is really good at MT, that only means that's HIS best choice. If Dude B is absolutly MADE for San Shou and can take out a MT fighter, that might not be a reflection on the styles.
My answer to all these "which is better?" questions is Shakespear: "Man, know thyself." There will be things that YOU are better at because of your body type and learning style. A's San Shou might beat B's MT, but they might both go down to C's Kung Fu. I think it's more the ability to match yourself to your style than the styles themselves.
And to the inevitable "You're a stupid poop head" comments, don't bother. Feel free to disagree with my humble and inexperianced point of view (or anyone's for that matter), but also remember that respect is hopefully as big a part of your art as a jab.
Life is too situational for these style questions to be answerable. Chill out and do what makes you happy. Over and out.

[xcom]

Ok let me put it to yous this way K-1 World Max in Japan is where the very best and I mean the best fighters in this world compete in a tournment to see who is the best top of the line fighter. And what do you know a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand named Buakaw Por. Pramuk went and won it all for the $100,000 bank. And I didn't see any san-show fighters in it because the aint good enough to have a world event yet. San-Show is not bad I was just laying it down with the facts that Muay Thai is the ultimate fighting style ever Mcay

agreed

In my opinion, the muaythai vs shanshou tournaments has nothing to do with the question which art is better. This is because, when thay used shanshou rules, it means the shanshou fights between thais and chineses. In contrast, if they applied muaythai rules, so, we just see the muay thai matches between guys from the two countries.

Muaythai (the old version) was designed to be used in the battle field so they don't need to spend time on the gound that is why there are not many groud games in it. The concept is to kill or stop your opponent(s) on the field (as you can see some muayboran moves in Ong Bak, Tony Jaa emphasised on brutal knee and elbow strikes).
In the early 90's the fighters could score from takedowns just as shanshou does now. I think they prohibited that rule because they need to see the more flowing fights and it is easier for the judges to score.

If you aim to practice martialart for self-defend or street fights pure muaythai is more than enough. For whom doesn't believe me, go to read this story (http://manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews....=9470000039045) if you can read Thai . If you wanna fight in K-1, muaythai is probably the best choice. If you wanna be good at MMA, practice muaythai + groud fighting arts then.

just my two cents

[Boxiados]

agreed

In my opinion, the muaythai vs shanshou tournaments has nothing to do with the question which art is better. This is because, when thay used shanshou rules, it means the shanshou fights between thais and chineses. In contrast, if they applied muaythai rules, so, we just see the muay thai matches between guys from the two countries.

Muaythai (the old version) was designed to be used in the battle field so they don't need to spend time on the gound that is why there are not many groud games in it. The concept is to kill or stop your opponent(s) on the field (as you can see some muayboran moves in Ong Bak, Tony Jaa emphasised on brutal knee and elbow strikes).
In the early 90's the fighters could score from takedowns just as shanshou does now. I think they prohibited that rule because they need to see the more flowing fights and it is easier for the judges to score.

If you aim to practice martialart for self-defend or street fights pure muaythai is more than enough. For whom doesn't believe me, go to read this story (http://manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews....=9470000039045) if you can read Thai . If you wanna fight in K-1, muaythai is probably the best choice. If you wanna be good at MMA, practice muaythai + groud fighting arts then.

just my two cents

I fully agree with your 2cents!!

[isukgrar]

I think MT is a bit better in terms of defensive echniques. These days, Muay Thai boxing in my country (Thailand) has developped a lot interms of new defensive techniques rather than invent more deadly techniques.
I do not know much about SANSHOU, however, as every one says, each has own uniqueness, let's try what you love.
isukgrar

[white devil]

Sanshou vs MT

I think muay thai would win but sanshou could win too.Muay thai is good but sanshou is better,not unbetter than muay thai who is still better than sanshou.You could say Sanshou would win MT but it is not not unlikely for MT to beat Sanshou as well.Wait,if we take a Sanshou guy and teach him muay thai would he still have a chance against a MT guy?What if we take a MT guy?What if we make 2 muay thai guys fight?Will the Sanshou fighter be able to watch?

I mean the question you ask is so precise that myself,someone who didnt study both arts enough and master every aspect of it can give my very precious unbogus point of view...Now if i say Muay thai is better..will you be walking around proudly knowing that what you study is an art that is actually effective?and vice versa for sanshou...But then again if you taken up sanshou or muay thai...you should already know that they are both effective..no?

You wanna know what i think,i think all you people starting This VS That threads are insecure about what you study and are looking for an excuse either to drop off..or to inflate your head and to be able to walk around with your dick up front showing it to everybody..because you study the ultimate art dont you??!!!..If i say muay thai is better will you drop off sanshou and take up mt classes?Now we can analyse both arts and see that they structuraly are the same,yet differ in some areas(grappling n throwing are examples)..But why are you not trying out both and see for yourself? I know its easier to ask a bunch of guys on the internet but seriously man...GO SEE FOR YOURSELF!! WE DONT KNOW..EVEN IF SOMETIMES WE PRETEND TO..Now ill be honest with you guys i havent read any of the 300 other replies..because i really really think any martial art this VS martial that thread is really only entertainement material and will not actually matter in reality..so i guess ill read them later

Dont agree or disagree with me,dont be pissed either..i deeply know that what im sayin is the truth ..also i dont have any objection of you starting out this vs that thread..(okay ill get off my high horse now)..i just think you should keep all of this in mind when you do..i know most of you already know but i really just felt like sharing my point of view..

[treelizard]

You wanna know what i think,i think all you people starting This VS That threads are insecure about what you study and are looking for an excuse either to drop off..or to inflate your head...

I wouldn't recommend TKD as a base art, but I saw a guy who combined his TKD with MT knock the doggy dog doo out of someone else with some weird fake kick followed by a high kick while full contact sparring.

Likewise, I've been told that "JKD doesn't work" but I know some JKD guys that could beat the crap out of a lot of opponents with their JKD that doesn't work.

I have to wonder how much of what works and what doesn't work is based on the practitioner. For example, when I'm sparring (just to touch the opponent, not full force) at this point in my (albeit extremely limited) training I'm MUCH more likely to use front kicks than punches because I'm really tiny. But if I went and told a group of 6" tall guys that "boxing doesn't work, only kickboxing works" that would be stupid.

I say, put on some padding, get on the matts, shut up and spar and then you can figure out what works (for you, that is.)

[Mephariel]

It just depends on the fighter. San Shou fighters can beat Muay Thai fighters and vice versa. Muay Thai has more attacks and focus on kness and elbows while San Shou is more about Kuai Jiao, or clinching. As for Muay Thai being developed for the military, so is San Shou. San Shou was developed by the Chinese military when they get all the kung fu experts get together to develop a defined kung fu art for China. To be fair, I think San Shou while is not as good as Muay Thai historically, I think Shan Shou is only beginning to get good. It is relatively new art in Chinese history.

[fire cobra]

Most if not all of the top fighters in k1,mma,and san shou train muay thai techniques to some degree,they all see the value in developing punch, kick, knee, and elbow attack and defence the way nak muay in thailand train,all good fighters appreciate muay thai,enough said!

[rickyparis]

Which has more advantages and would have more effective strategies and techniques in a street fight?

Fight in the streets first , and then try again.

[Shoot]

Enough of which art is better already. And anyway, how many streetfights are there that everyone is always worried about street effectiveness?

If you want a martial art with some street cred then go move to a really bad part of town, join a gang, get beat into the gang, go get into fights with the gang. Get arrested, go through the penal system, get ass raped in prison, learn 52 Blocks or something and pump lots of iron, come out and you'll be a real badass. Then you won't have to worry about is my art effective on the street. You will be the street.

In the meantime just train in whatever you enjoy the most because statistics argue that it is unlikely most Americans will actually get into street fights. And Sanshou and Muay Thai are both good. Although I'd argue the comparison is not really accurate as the similarities of the two arts are superficial. MT is a subset of the traditional Thai arts, hence, a lot of the original grappling, weapons, etc. have been removed. Sanshou, though a modern, derived art, drew upon the whole of Chinese martial arts, hence it focuses on more ranges.

Btw Lizard, MT has some takedowns, there just aren't as many as SS (they're more along the lines of sweeps).

And that's my rant for today.

Until I see another silly post of course.

Oh manl, what a great post. I completely agree with this. I'd be much more concerned with getting hurt training in martial arts then getting hurt by getting in a "street fight." C'mon. The last full on "street fight" or "fist fight" I got in was in 8th grade over 20 years ago--and I'm sure I could have avoided that one but decided not to. The last time I got hurt doing martial arts was about 2 weeks ago. Go figure. I guess we should also train 4-5 hours a week to fight off a mad dog. Come to think of it we really should be prepared for killer bees too.

[Guest]

Come to think of it we really should be prepared for killer bees too.

Oh shit, they heard you man!

[rezbot2000]

it seems to me that san shou v muay thai usually fight under san shou rules. I just saw a Russian (can't remember the martial art) V Chinese SS exhibition where it was under SS rules. And I've heard that in China they take on all competitors so long as it's done in san shou rules. That sounds very lame and embarassing. How would they do against MT w/MT rules (elbows/knees).