Is it ok to kick with the instep?

[Uchiha_Anbu]

I'm not masochistic enough to properly train my shins and when I kick I naturally range myself for a instep hit. Will this damage my ankle? I use the ball of my foot aswelll. Because with my shoes on its the equivalent of the tip of my shoes.

[Uchiha_Anbu]

oops

This has nothing to do with mental training. sorry

[highgrindr]

i wouldn't use the instep in a real fight though, unless you are as comfortable with your instep as like a front snap kick.... even then, it wouldnt be as effective as a direct connecting front kick....

[szorn]

Re: Is it ok to kick with the instep?

Originally posted by Uchiha_Anbu
I'm not masochistic enough to properly train my shins and when I kick I naturally range myself for a instep hit. Will this damage my ankle? I use the ball of my foot aswelll. Because with my shoes on its the equivalent of the tip of my shoes.

This essentially depends on the kick being used and the intended target. If you are using a front kick to the groin then yes an instep is fine and a shin is even better. If you are using a round or hook kick to the legs then a shin is better. As you have already discovered, attempting to use the ball of the foot is futile while wearing shoes as it ends up being a shoe tip kick. Nothing wrong with that but it might not be too effective depending on the target.

Steve http://www.geocities.com/combatives

[Apoth]

I've recently experienced this one first hand. I came from a kempo school where were taught a TKD style round-house which was essentially a "snap" round-house striking with the instep. I moved between states a few months back and am now taking MT where we do what I guess I would call a "push" roundhouse (for lack of a better description) with the shin.

We started sparring recently and for the first few classes I was striking with my instep and let me tell you first hand that if you don't land directly on target or get a shin block, it's going to hurt a lot. I have had a chronic ache in my foot for the past few weeks because when I would land with the instep it would hyperextend the ankle and flex the bones on the top of the foot. It only felt worse when it was blocked.

My advice? Learn to hit with the lower part of the shin, you may bruise it, but atleast you'll be able to walk later.

[JP Prideaux]

Ive seen some highkicks connect with the instep... but these were good kickers and were capable of causing a KO with it regardless.

Other than that i only use the instep in point-fighting

[dfissionr]

I think kicking with the instep is mostly for snapping kicks since the vector for the force is contained in a smaller area which allows for a better whipping effect. I'm an advocate for using snap kicks because they work great. The only problem with them is that most people can't generate a fast enough snap to cause any damage which is why I think alot of people call them useless. However once you can really snap your leg, the snapping roundhouse is far more devastating then a "push" roundhouse. I know this might be sort of a extreme example but check out Bruce Lee's snap in "Way of the Dragon/ Return of The Dragon" when he fights Bob Wall and the japanese karate fighter.

[darrianation]

To shin or not to shin

I like the shins! You can work hardening the shins on the heavy bag. Also in most styles of karate they teach you to do round kicks with the ball of the foot. Doing this you can land hard round kicks (harder than with the instep) But you run the risk of breaking your toes. The instep…um not good if you ever land a hard round kick on a hard surface like someone elbow or shin you will be limping for the next 2 weeks and thats if your foot isn’t broke .Try working on those shins you’ll be much better off in the long run.

[Uchiha_Anbu]

i wouldn't use the instep in a real fight though, unless you are as comfortable with your instep as like a front snap kick.... even then, it wouldnt be as effective as a direct connecting front kick....

What part of the foot foot do you use with the front kick? Is it the ball?

I've recently experienced this one first hand. I came from a kempo school where were taught a TKD style round-house which was essentially a "snap" round-house striking with the instep.

Thats the type of round-house I learned in TKD when i was 10. But I use it when I fire a high roundhouse. Ive been using the MT version for middle and low. I just practice it on the heavy bag. I havent kicked a shin or a forarm with it mutch less an elbow with my instep. I only use side kicks and hooking heels sparing. But I just spar friends, because I train myself. Not by choice but by location.

However once you can really snap your leg, the snapping roundhouse is far more devastating then a "push" roundhouse.

Do you think a snap round-house with the shin would be effective? Im going to try it tommorow. Guess im gonna have to develop my lower shins after all. O well bruises arent that bad. I wear lowtops anyways.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

the part I liked before my shins were hard enough was the part between the instep and shin to the place where it bends, it's hard and still less sensitive than the shin

[Apoth]

I think the problem you run into with snap kicks towards the head is that they don't have much punch. I find them alot easier to do, but you lose so much energy getting your foot up to head level that the blow's not going to be very painful. A MT kick to the head, on the other hand, has the full force of the body behind it and, while its power is still diminished it has enough to knock a man out.

Keep in mind I've never been hit with either kick in the head, so I'm not sure of the effects, this is just theory from trying to kick at that level for both.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by Apoth
I think the problem you run into with snap kicks towards the head is that they don't have much punch. I find them alot easier to do, but you lose so much energy getting your foot up to head level that the blow's not going to be very painful. A MT kick to the head, on the other hand, has the full force of the body behind it and, while its power is still diminished it has enough to knock a man out.

Keep in mind I've never been hit with either kick in the head, so I'm not sure of the effects, this is just theory from trying to kick at that level for both.

13 second knockouts/downs in Kyokushin matches using a snapkick to the head so snapkick have knockoutpower just like the MT kicks

[Apoth]

Thanks for some clarification, Toudiyama. Just out of curiousity, do you we agree with the other guy that snap kicks have more power when done properly?

I see snap kicks as one of those that can be effective if you get your speed up, but may not be as effective for beginners where as a MT kick (when the basics are learned) is effective pretty much from the get-go. Any thoughts?

[Damian Mavis]

Apoth. "Pushing" with their kick is what the begginers do that can't learn to snap their hip or what the experts do when they are pulling their kick so as to not hurt someone. Otherwise you visciously snap your hip into and out of your target for maximum concussive power and damage. I'm a 4th degree TKD instructor, I'm also a Muay Thai fighter so I can honestly tell you guys the differences between knee chambered round kick and the Thai round kick.

I've been doing chambered knee roundkick and kicking with the instep for 13 years, I can really pound them out. But I can get the same amount of power out of my Thai round kick. The difference is, if I hit you full out with both you will quickly see that the Thai round kick has more concussive power and does more damage even though the power is the same. This is because the attacking tool (the shin) is much more devastating a weapon then the instep. Hey I run a TKD school, I'm not going to BS here. A sharp bony shin is like a bat compared to the instep which is like... well like an instep. The shin just does more damage.

Also, I NEVER would use the instep in a street fight or in the ring UNLESS it goes to the head. I have repeatedly disabled my foot by kicking with the instep on lower targets like the leg or hitting the elbows when trying to kick to the torso, so I always try to kick to those targets with the shin to avoid injury. BUT when kicking to the head I prefer the fullout chambered knee kick with the instep. The head moves slightly with impact and takes away some of the damage to the foot, I've never even felt pain when kicking full contact to the head bone on bone with the instep unlike the full contact kicks I've done to the legs and torso with instep).

Apoth, the chambered leg kick to the head is just as powerful as the thai kick but if you do get hit with the shin to the head (which means your opponent is pretty close) it will cause more damage. But uh, both of them will knock you out so the degree of concussion you have afterwards is of little relevance... how knocked out do you need to be? heh You mentioned getting their full body behind their kick, that should be the same for chambered knee or Thai kick.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Apoth]

I do understand that a snap kick should have the full body behind--I was actually taught that way--what I was thinking of specifically is the way alot of beginning students do snap kicks when they're doing double kicks (i.e. knee, chamber, head). The first kick has the body, but most of the time, the second one gets almost all of its force from the knee, rather than the hip.

Anyway, thanks for the info from someone more experienced in MA than myslef.