Kata vs. Shadow Boxing

[yenhoi]

MTFighter:

shadowboxing is "superior" to katas only because eventually shadowboxing is not pre-arranged.

you have incorerct pre-concieved notions of what kata and forms are. and of course many if not most people use kata and forms incorrectly. whats it matter anyways?

some styles have forms that are 3 techniques long. One in boxing comes to mind, jab-cross-lead hook.

[Thai Bri]

That is hardly a form. It is a combination. There is a difference.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
That is hardly a form. It is a combination. There is a difference.

I agree there is a difference between form and shadow boxing.The jab,right cross and hook he is talking about are just combinations like you said.

[JThorne]

one other thing re Katas/forms

well there is one other thing to think of here & that is the main purpose of katas or Forms, imho not just for leg strength etc but to ingrain the moves into the brain by repetition.

Personally I do not like katas and in fact they almost damn well put me off mAs altogether when I used to do Shotokan as a kid but I do see their use.
Of course there is no major comparison between proper sparring and katas but in the case of Wing chun (just for example) the forms really are ingraining all the systems movements into the subconscious mind so that HOPEFULLY when the time comes there SHOULD NOT be any thoughts required just pure instinctive reflex.

so there u have it teeny boppers

[grubbogoppoly]

"I agree there is a difference between form and shadow boxing.The jab,right cross and hook he is talking about are just combinations like you said."
Then we can agree that combination practice is similar to forms training?

[Thai Bri]

People still fail to understand that, when doing Katas, they are not ingraining how to do a technique at all. They are ingraining how NOT to do it, i.e. in a stiff and robotic fashion, against thin air.

Kata has wasted a lot of time. It was invented by people who were a bit dim, and then got locked into mysterious traditions that live on for centuries.

Do you see Tennis Champions doing tennis Kata? Moving around with a racket, robotically marching around a court (without a ball or an opponent) "ingraining" their moves?

Or any other sport?

Nope. Coz its for thickoes who are looking for secret powers and other such bollox.

I love you all!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Secret Powers are NOT bollox!!!!


And kata is a useful training tool, you knob.

Not as useful as randori, but still useful.

You should practice like you want to play.

IF your katas are rigid and unrealistic then Brit has a point. However, the kata I know I had to derive myself as extended shadow boxing sessions.

When I take my next test, I'll ship you a copy of the tape and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Punkass!

Spanky

However, there is a strong chance that kata is gay...

[Thai Bri]

Getting stronger if you do 'em.

[Szczepankiewicz]

What?

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
"I agree there is a difference between form and shadow boxing.The jab,right cross and hook he is talking about are just combinations like you said."
Then we can agree that combination practice is similar to forms training?

No we can not agree,because I don't.

Forms training are completely different from combination practice.

Forms train for co-ordination,balance,focus and leg strength however are missing the point of training to fight in which shadow boxing does.

As someone else explained previously,when shadow boxing you are fighting against yourself or another opponent.

However katas (forms)is simply that katas and they are pre-arranged movements,in shadow boxing you create your own combinations using everything you have learnt.

In a real life situation where you may be forced to fight katas will not properly prepare you,because in a real situation you have no time to think,you have to just react.

In shadow boxing you don't think about what you are doing you just throw your different punches,kicks,knees and whatever else you learnt etc.without thinking about what you are doing,which prepares you for a real situation.

In katas if you don't think about what you are doing you will mess up and do the kata wrong,in shadow boxing there is no right or wrong (unless you get sloppy with your punches and kicks) since you create your own combinations.Just like in a real fight you have to do what is going to work best for you and according to how you automatically react,not think about what techniques you learnt in each kata and how to apply each one,by then you would be finished.

You react according to how you train,if you train incorrectly you will fight to defend yourself that way and probably lose,if you train properly you will fight that way and hopefully win.

So there is a huge difference between kata and shadow boxing, for fighting shadow boxing is way more realistic.But when it comes down to it nothing is better then sparring full contact.

[huey]

Shadow Boxing:

Techniques made specifically for fighting. Practiced on own without partner, just as in kata.

The difference between shadow boxing and kata is that unlike katas shadow boxing moves are not forms or pre-arranged techniques.

didn't you say in the first part that there are techniques made for fighting and then say that in the second there are not pre arranged techniques? just kidding

i know what you meant just splittin hairs.

although i agree with the fact that shadow boxing doesn't seem like a kata if you do it differently each time, if you do think that it is like a kata, it would be as if you are performing a new kata each time you shadow box.

when you say kata do you mean all katas in all styles?
because in our system, our katas, in the begining, concentrate on the stances, strikes, blocks, and such things as you mentioned.in these early katas we do not use anything that doesn't work in a fight. in later katas the fighting techniques we learn are placed into the kata. we do not perform a kata at this stage without first knowing all the particulars about each of the techniques. all the speed, power, intensity, and everything else that goes into the technique will go into each portion of the kata.

[yenhoi]

shadowboxing is worthless for the same reasons kata are worthless.

no opponent.

no resistance.

nothing is being trained just flailing around robotically at thin air.

many "arts" have 3, 5, 10 "move" combos or forms.

thai boxing has long forms - 15, 17, 18 point combos... against pads, sofly against a partner, or even as shadowboxing..

[Thai Bri]

Shadow boxing is not worthless, though I always use my bags / pads personally.

If you had none, and wanted to train, a goo shado boxing session would be fine. Remeber, you have to train your mind too. You have to be "alive" to possible moves that may be made on you, and react accordingly.

Not the best training, but good training none the less. Every world champion boxer theres ever been can't be wrong.

[DRG]

There isn't any difference between a combo and a form. If you
think there is you should explain why, but of course you can't because you don't have a good answer other than thats what I've been told. Most of you guys couldn't think your way out of a paper bag.

[Thai Bri]

That must be true, since we struggle to cope with your advanced grammatical skills.

You dip shit.