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That is the funniest post on the fookin web!
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sherwinc
this is not intended to affend anyone else but I would like to know if sherwinc or what ever your user name is has ever actualy fought for real not in your head or in your katas because ive seen you preeching on a couple different things now about you one or two shot knockouts and what bs and by the way you are wrong in te worst way about shadow boxing there is nothing fixed about it.. I think maybe you have your own website to support your dumb ass egoComment
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Yesterday i spar again another Tae Kwon Do Veteran and the ratio of our hit is 4:0, he did not hit me just once but i hit him 4 times...., its a hard sparring but we made an agreeement that we should not use feet attack but only hands and full contact...... he then withdraw the fight after 30seconds (ratio of hit 4:0) cause he could not stand to block my forearm ( he doesnt know that i am practicing wooden dummy almost everyday)Originally posted by thaibxr
i answer your question:
since i have no experience in tournament matches but only full contact hard sparring (plenty of hard full contact sparring experiences)...... cause i believe that whether tournament or hard sparring is also the same for the reason of they both uses two arms, two feet, and two heads...... another difference is in tournament the referree breaks you after hitting while in sparring you wont stop hitting until your partner surrenders or withdraws..... but its only a sports and no hard feelings....
my turn, what is the difference between Commercialized Martial Arts like you compare to Non-Commercialized Martial Arts like us???????Comment
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sparring
as I understand in your sparring partners art the main weapons are kicks are they not?if you take those away it becomes a handy cap match how do you know you would even get inside if he could use the reach of his kicks to keep you away.Why dont you let him kick use both your styles at there best. and the answer to your question is it all depends on who is teaching you someone in it for the money or someone who wants to develop good fighters.Comment
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i am not convinced by your answers about the EFFECTS OF COMMERCIALIZED compare to NON-COMMERCIALIZED MARTIAL ARTSOriginally posted by thaibxr
we use kicks 20% only and 80% hand attacks..... we use kicks only as an insertion prior to simultaenously punching with low kicks (Illusion Techniques of Chi Dian Bun KungFu) (also one of What You See Is Not Techniques)Comment
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Can you reverse your sex change operation?Originally posted by sherwincComment
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Kicks Are The Strongest And Most Effective.
Kicks Should Be Used In Ring Or Street Fights All The Time But High Kicks Should Only Be Used When You See An Opportunity.
And Also If You Kick There Legs Over And Over They Will Not Be Able To Use Them As Good And A Fighter Needs Legs Good Legs.Comment
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Benefits of both
So I've read through this thread, and it's pretty entertaining. I think both shadow boxing and kata's have their place. One great benefit of shadow boxing is its spontanaity, while a benefit of kata's is to teach balance, strength, and often appropriate movements when faced with one particular attack or defense.
The thing that kept popping up in my mind while reading this was my experience practicing weapons katas in aikido. I've been able to study weapons (boken = sword, jo = staff, tanto = knife) for about four years now, which has taught me that I have only scratched the surface of what there is to learn. What is revealed when doing weapons, though, is that these katas only work when your opponent plays along. This means when I'm squared off against another person with a boken, he attacks, I block. I'm then in a position to attack, and he blocks. So on and so forth, until the "end" of the kata.
Sometimes myself or my partner goes through the motions thoughtlessly, and there's no life in the kata. For example, he attacks, I block, then he puts up his block before I attack. This ultimately alters the kata, becuase if he has his boken above his head before I swing, I'm more likely to swing for his midsection since it's exposed, as compared to his head which is covered.
Other times, however, that kata is infused with life, as my partner comes at me like he wants to take my head off, and I block or move because it's in my best interest to save my skull. Where I often find myself then is in a great position to attack in the same manner prescribed by the kata. (Needless to say, I can attack in a bunch of different ways from here, but I've agreed to practice this particular kata, so I stick with the plan). So I attack whole-heartedly, and my parter blocks or moves to preserve himself.
My point is that kata's do have their place. While you wouldn't want to just go through the motions of a kata in a street fight (totally useless), if you find yourself in one of the segments of a kata (for example someone swinging a bat or bottle to your head), one of the many singular manuevers for defense that were practiced in the kata can certainly come in handy.
I think that what I found extremely helpful in training with weapons, is that the katas can help to show you that you should be doing the motions for a reason (ie. I block or move BECAUSE someone is swinging to my head, or thrusting towards my body). I think this aspect is lost in a lot of the katas I hear people refer to. They're completely devoid of the rationale behind the movements.
The movements are strung together and set ahead of time, but with the idea that they are actions and reactions to an imagined, yet perceived attack.
Shadow boxing is much the same, except the actions and reactions are conceived on the spot, which is extremely helpful for aiding spontinaity and reaction time.
I think both can be useful, and have a lot to teach.
My 2 centsComment
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The Truth is, Kata and shadow boxing are two totally different exercises. Kata teaches certain SPECIFIC techniques, while shadow boxing lets you incorporate those techniques into your muscle memory
Heh, I see what you are saying, but in truth, I think it is wrong. I think you are saying, that Kata is not an application of techniques, but a study of technique(s), that you are learning combinations similar to those in boxing (where a combo or technique can be offloaded in a single step). But remember when talking about kata you are essentially talking about someone acting and reacting in a fixed movement, a form. The only thing dissimilar of kata to shadow boxing is that you are moving in a fixed way against a fixed opponent(s), wherein shawdow boxing you move spontaneously against a non-fixed opponent.
Why is it taken for granted that shadowboxing isn't pre-arranged?
When you are practicing fixed combos, isn't is pre-arranged too?
Free shadowboxing is based on your prior knowledge, you won't learn anything new.
Yep, combos are fixed, for one main reason, muscle memory. So you can call upon the combo without a thought process. Is shadow boxing pre-arranged? Nope. It is the application of techniques and combos, and the linking of techniques and combos spontaneously. Unlike kata where your application is fixed.
Shadowboxing is based upon prior knowledge, true. But you learn how to apply what you have learnt in a spontaneous like situation(s).
A simple jab cross hook combo is a FORM,
I agree partially. It is linked techniques, but it is an action that requires no reaction (eg I punch, oh then I block, oh then i move to the side
). It's still a single step, ya know. Boom, boom, boom. Unlike kata where you stop, start, then stop, then start again.
There are no prearranged movements in shadow boxing
Apart from the above, I agree. Shadowboxing is the spontaneous application of technique(s).
Shadow boxing is a training excercise for boxing
I like to think shadowboxing is more generic than that. You can use it in kickboxing, in the clinch when kneeing or elbowing, although it does get much more difficult and less applicable, you can still use it for grappling.
What it comes down to is kata is inefficient, and fighting is about efficiency. You want to learn techniques? Then don't bother trying to disect techniques from your kata, just go back to step one and learn the technique. Then once you have learned your techniques and/or combos, apply them through sparring if possible, but if not, then through shadow boxing.
You want strength, endurance, flexibility, balance, then go out and do (respectively) weights, cardio, stretches, and ballet
. Don't bother with kata, when you can achieve better results through other means.
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I think myself kata's have 2much set positions, shadow boxing is very important!Comment
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If you practice katas or shadow boxing without intent then you are wasting your time. When I did TKD we did nothing but poomse all night. This is the opposite end of the spectrum and is totally useles.(Especially when you cant be given a satifactory explaination as to what certain movements are for!) I think if you dont like kata then dont do them. Training your combos shadow boxing style is fine. Any training without purpose is useless.Comment
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In my opinion, both kata and shadow boxing are equally important. Kata helps technique, balance, and focus, and without those you will be a pretty goofy fighter. However, as a means of fighting, kata is not enough on its own. And that is where shadowboxing comes in. It applies the techniques in kata into a more useful approach.
ENOUGH KATA BASHING!!!!Comment
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TRUE!!!!!Originally posted by bugei
and Kata is your blueprint in art/fighting......Comment
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Katas are over!!
Kata is great to watch, especially when in a group of 50 or more who are doing the same perfect moves simultaneously, Iused to enjoy doing Katas, but my philosophy is been always looking for what's effective and not only what looks beautiful. since I started Kick and Thai 15 years ago I completely abbandoned Karate and I never missed it. Katas movements are prefixed movemets, and no prefixed movments are good for selfdefense, no one will come attack you with one of those prefixed movements so you can block him and counter with prefixed movements.Originally posted by bugei
Shadow boxing is spontaneous and it's the best exercise for coordination and balance, done in front of a mirror gives you the opportunity to correct yourself all the time and improve your techniques.
Bottom line: SHADOWBOXING OVERSHADOWS KATAS.
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Originally posted by sherwinc
ahhhh its sherwinc. i missed you so much. ever since i took a break from these forum chats nothing has been the same without your mindless misguided crap. all those days of us debating and me getting the better of you... remember how you used to not answer my questions... and if you did it would end up being some kind of vague bs? yeah.... those were the good ol' days weren't they? it looks like you and that tkd guy were doin some point sparring since u guys were keeping score. cuz 4:0 is well.... a low hit rate in a sparring match for it to be REAL sparring. sure sure it was "full contact". maybe u deserve some kinda credit there.... NOT. and you really didnt answer his question. tournament sparring isnt real fighting. plus the only tournaments you go to are probably gonna be full of forms and point sparring. do yourself a favour before a person who really knows how to fight kicks your ass. do some full contact non stop (which means after every hit you dont jump back 5 feet into your stance and circle eachother). so... have you actually ever been in a REAL conflict?
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