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  • Multiple Opponents

    I know the best thing to do if you are attacked by multiple opponents is to run. Let's say that you can't run. What are good ways to defend yourself in such a situation. Should you take out the biggest guy first or the one closest to you? I think that you should hit them hard in the nose and make them bleed. Then maybe they might go away knowing that you might kick their ass. I also think you should hit them in the groin or right above the knee. You should also try to end the fight as soon as possible. Your thoughts

  • #2
    You should really check out the mass attack video clip on www.atienzakali.com

    I think the basics are, line them up, don't get surrounded, DON'T END UP ON THE GROUND, don't get tunnel-visioned just focusing on one guy, and kick enough ass that once you've taken care of the first two or three guys the rest lose their will to fight.

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    • #3
      Be prepaired to get hit, scratched, grabbed and struck at in broken rhythm and simultaneously. Destroy atleast one of the dude's legs or groin so that he has a bad limp. Try to keep moving, keep your hands up and keep striking!!!

      If you last long enough, you might get lucky enough to find an escape or someone may intervene. Empty hands against multiples is no joke; better to employ a weapon that you are comfortable with.

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      • #4
        I figured this subject would eventually come up in this forum
        ........................................................
        Fighting Multiple Opponents

        Often I have heard many people state that fighting multiple opponents cannot be done. Although fighting more than one opponent is less desirable than fighting one, it is a fact that if you don’t believe you can win against multiple opponents, you can’t.

        Understanding that the mind guides the body, when dealing with multiple assailants we must selectively change our mindset. When fighting multiples, people will normally adopt one of the following attitudes:

        1. I can’t win against these odds (loosing mindset)
        2. I may lose, but I’ll take as many as I can with me (this is still a loosing mindset)
        3. I am going to win this thing ( this is your goal)

        Again, the first rule in fighting multiple opponents is; “IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE YOU CAN WIN AGAINST MULTIPLE OPPONENTS, YOU CAN’T”

        Phil Messina, founder of Modern Warrior and who I have trained with, has shared the following story to illustrate the topic of multiple opponents:

        “ A great warrior was once asked, what would you do id one day you ran across three warriors equal to you in all respects except one. The first was faster than you, The second was stronger than you. And the third was more durable than you. If you had to fight each of them, which would you choose first? Without hesitation the great warrior responded: I would simply fight all three at once. When asked why, he responded; I have practiced fighting against the WOLF PACK, but I doubt they have practiced fighting as the wolf Pack”

        The point of the above noted illustration is, multiples rarely train to work together and most often work against each other:

        * They get in each others way
        * Have a tendency to neutralize each others attacks


        In a multiple opponent situation do you have to physically defeat each and every attacker? NO you do not! You must PSYCHOLOGICALLY destroy the wolf pack. You must physically defeat the threat as it becomes available, some will retreat, some will scatter. Some don’t really want to be there and will look for an excuse to get out.

        First step if fighting multiples, “AWARENESS”

        * Positioning relative to each other (movement in conjunction, setting up)
        * Attackers glancing at each other (silent communication, waiting for attack cue)
        * Word(s) that don’t make sense ( to confuse, may be attack signal)
        * Unusual body language (inconsistent with conversation, assailant may do something-remove hat, wipe hair back, drop something-usually attack cue)
        * Secondary subject distraction (may attempt to divert attention to other assailant(s) in order to attack)

        Second Step in fighting multiples “IDENTIFY GROUP MENTAILITY”


        · Who is the strong link, this is your greatest threat. This person may be identifiable by virtue of position or leadership role

        · Who is the weak link, this is your weakest/least threat. This person may be identified by distance or in a protected position

        · Remember that the above two are dynamic, and we have the ability to effect change on these



        GENERAL STRATEGY WHEN FIGHTING MULTIPLES:


        * Psychological battle is as important as physical battle
        * If possible identify the leader and take him out of the fight quickly and decisively. This will create a new leader, by destroying the old one- see if anyone else wants to assume the role
        * If you can’t take out the leader right away, take away his leadership role by showing the rest of the group that he can not protect them. Make the strong link psychologically ineffective- keep him at bay will defeating others
        * Create a weak link by injuring an attacker but leaving him standing so that he may be used against the group later on
        * Create a psychologically devastating and overwhelming visible injury to those you attack to disempower the group
        * The use of real or improvised weapons should be used
        * The first few seconds are critical in establishing psychological control
        * CONTINUED MOVEMENT is a must. If you remain stationary the pack will triangulate
        * Don’t be predictable move and strike erratically and viciously to the vision, wind and limbs of opponents using gross motor skills. Strike the person you are not looking at


        Use the principal of S.C.A.R. (Screening, Cracking, And Re-directing) to your advantage:


        SCREENING:

        Use your attackers against each other. Cause them to get in each other’s way. Cause them to provide protection for you by being obstacles to others effectively attacking you (shield yourself from blows and attacks from others)



        CRACKING:

        When tactically feasible, move between your attackers, striking as you do so. This tactic will allow you to move into a more desirable position for attack while forcing your opponents to adjust to you. Position is often more important than distance. You want to be as efficient and productive as possible while forcing your attackers into less desirable positions


        RE-DIRECTING:

        Use your attackers momentum and direction against them. You do not have to make devastating hits with each engagement. Instead, re-direct your attackers into less desirable and or damaging positions such as walls, tables, chairs, each other. Let inanimate objects cause damage to them or let them cause damage to each other

        Remember that while using the principals of SCAR, you want to be causing physical and psychological damage at the same time.


        Remember that fighting multiple opponents is chaotic, and that you want to cause the chaos without becoming part of it. It is my opinion, that a multiple opponent confrontation is a “DEADLY FORCE” encounter. Why, it has been my experience as an LEO that those that fall victim to these swarmings end up seriously injured, or dead.


        I have trained to fight the WOLF PACK, but I doubt the WOLF PACK has trained to fight cohesively against me. This is a tactical advantage that I can use to make a less desirable situation more desirable, thus giving me the “WIN” mindset and attitude.



        Strength and Honor



        Darren Laur

        http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/fighting_multiple.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting how many artists are convinced that Multiples and weapons are beyond the ability of mortal men to defeat. The archives on this very forum have a number of examples of the victim mindset and defeatist attitude that if you get into trouble like this you can only run away or curl into a ball and take your stomping...


          Sheeesh...

          Kill one, the rest will run away... But don't take my word for it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Haha in my krav maga training for multiples we would get a group of people with "tombstone pads"

            (Small pad, maybe... 2 and a half focus mitts in size)

            And you would face off against your multiple attackers... basically they could hit you wherever they wanted, as hard as they wanted, as many times as they wanted, at the same time if they chose too, one after the other if they chose too, whatever.. completely open.

            Basically you had to "fight" these people, by moving around, hitting the pads (to simulate hitting them back), and trying not to get hit.

            Things I found from doing this....

            1. It sucks, not a good situation, so try to avoid it.

            2. Where you are is important, are you in a corner? is the corner to your advantage or against you... sure they have less angles to attack you, but you can get stuck, should you move away from the corner?

            3. Environmental surroundings... is there glass, why yes there was, a huge chunk of glass, a mirror, cant go getting smashed into the mirror, so you have to be aware of that, although in training you didnt want to hit the mirror to break it, it provided something you need to stay away from, maybe a... cliff?.. I donno whatever you imagine it to be , a pit of spikes like in mortal kombat, whatever you want lol.

            4. Identifying the biggest threat, this was kinda discussed, but I noticed some people were happy to bash away at you with the pad, while others were a bit... hesitant... who do you think it was more important to defend against?

            5. More environment, it wasnt always one person defending against attackers, it could have been a few groups of people, by learning to avoid tripping over the other people... (you move around ALOT when doing this drill), you learn to avoid tripping over things whcih might come into play, a curb, a fire hydrant, a fence, a dog... lol a dog...

            Whatever, some things I learned from doing a bit of multiple attacker crap.

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            • #7
              I'll add when they're all hitting you, they don't hit as hard as they would if it were one on one. I don't know why that is...psychological or lack of space and disregard for technique?

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              • #8
                I was hoping that people who have had to fight multiple opponents or know others who have (in real life) could explain how they got into that situation in the first place. I don't mean that in a blame-the-victim type of way, but I am trying to pinpoint what exactly the indicators are, and how it is different from single opponent scenarios.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by treelizard
                  I was hoping that people who have had to fight multiple opponents or know others who have (in real life) could explain how they got into that situation in the first place. I don't mean that in a blame-the-victim type of way, but I am trying to pinpoint what exactly the indicators are, and how it is different from single opponent scenarios.

                  Bait...

                  Good samaritan stops to help "stranded" motorist, a single female in apparent distress. As he approaches three big men with various blunt and sharp weapons spring out of the roadside landscaping (bushes) and first threaten then attack in a cooperative effort to steal his belongings...

                  This event happened to a Judo blackbelt back east several years ago. He escaped with minor injuries and managed to inflict some trauma on his attackers including the female who decided to jump into the malae...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    lol the hot chick in the mini skirt at the side of the road with car trouble....

                    seems like a god send until the bikers with shotguns jump out of the bushes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SamuraiGuy
                      lol the hot chick in the mini skirt at the side of the road with car trouble....

                      seems like a god send until the bikers with shotguns jump out of the bushes.
                      okay now make up your mind, was the chick in the mini skirt hot or was she with bikers? i have hours of footage of biker babes from different events, for years i have been tempted to blackmail Harley but threatning to release video of real biker women....trust me it aint good....no one would stop for a biker chick in a mini skirt....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BoarSpear
                        okay now make up your mind, was the chick in the mini skirt hot or was she with bikers? i have hours of footage of biker babes from different events, for years i have been tempted to blackmail Harley but threatning to release video of real biker women....trust me it aint good....no one would stop for a biker chick in a mini skirt....
                        come on, man!
                        get in the V-D day spirit, eh?

                        after all, tis a day to remember, even busdrivers and tank-asses need love.

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                        • #13
                          Never said the hot biker chick Boarspear, just said the hot chick in the mini skirt.

                          then the bikers jump out of the bushes...

                          they could have kidnapped her from the local modelling agency, or just hid behind her car waiting for someone to stop, or paid a stripper (they can be hot even if they are diseased).

                          not once did I say biker chick :P

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                          • #14
                            Fighting a group is never easy. But yea, the group could be a distanage to itself. Solo MA tactics no longer work well in this arena. I'm refering to the group.
                            My cousin's EX, was a member of a street corner gang. He has quite abit of street fighting exprience and a police record to prove it. He says his tactic is if, possible just concentrate on one opponent at a time. The others may hit you abit, but chances are they won't be able to do much damage. Once you're finished with one, turn your attention to another.
                            But that works for him because most of his fights were agaisnt other teens his age and most of them either have no MA exprience or they learnt some form of mcdojo TKD.
                            Whatever happens. Do not get surrounded, Do not get cornered. Even if you don't win, try to come out of it alive.

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                            • #15
                              wouldn't it be best to find the most advantageous postion for your self such as a door way, or stairwell where they are forced to fight you one at a time?, in a door way or stairwell you could always run back and get a bit of space and time for yourself to figure out an escape of find some kind of improvised weapon. eg, stick, brick, bottle,(preferably glass as hitting someone with an empty plastic bottle only stands a very slight chance of making them laugh themselves to death and is otherwise only useful as a distraction)

                              just a thought

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