Ultimate self defence

[darrianation]

As chalambok & Bri has said the order of priorities for unarmed combat may look something like this:

1. Striking: Upper body strikes i.e. punches, elbow, and forearms.

2. Then kicks: keep them low targeting the groin, knees, shins, etc:

3. Then grappling techniques:

A. Clinch work and striking from the clinch--knees, headbutts, biting, bladed (inside/outside blade of shoe) kicks to the shin or toe of boot kick to the shins, and foot stomps. Trips and simple throws (osoto gari, etc).

B. Sprawling, BJJ (modified) standup, and a few escapes from the mount.

Remember, biting, eye gouging, and etc are just another tool in the toolbox and should be thought of as a "helper" to affect an reaction to open an opportunity for an successful escape to they may not work (either your opponent is not compliant with pain, maybe he's drugged up, or he places you in a position where you can't bite or gouge, etc). A ball point pen or a knife, OC spray (etc) may work better to affect that escape.

[Redrooster]

Well Im glad to see Ive created a nice thread here, lots of good thoughts. I should say for the record that I should really have named the thread Ultimate stand up fighting. Fending off muggers or rolling on the ground with mma wasnt really my intent, having said that there have been some good thoughts on those subjects as well.

Thai Bri perhaps we think alot alike devastating simplicity works. Not only are we the same age, we share similar professions as I am a Corrections Officer. I would like to ask why you dont feel trapping is worthwhile technique, not a ridiculous 3-5 part technique but a really simple one. I have not taken any Wing Chun but I do think trapping range exists, we often see it when two fighters start to tire and start working for a clinch. At that moment arms are extended and not punching or retracting. It seems to me some simple trapping would lead to openings for hooks, elbows and butts to the head. obviously with professional level athletes this might not ever happen due to conditioning but for everyone else its almost sure to as fighting will surely wind you.

On a similar note I would like to ask the members of this board about Muay Thai clenching techniques. I watch these fights and notice the fighters when clenched love to throw knees to the body but Ive never seen one have a dramatic effect. it seems to me thats alot of energy being expended for little gain. They seem to be glancing blows, is the idea to catch the under side of the rib cage and break some bottom ribs?

I still think head butts are the most effective blow. the top of your head is the hardest bone in the body. A shot to the face is akin pushing an
8 lb bowling ball into your mug. Are head butts illegal in Thailand?

as for the legs not being used for 3 years, I can only speculate they are talking about shins getting fully conditioned. My understanding is the real thai fighters have careers of 5 years or less as blood clotting in the legs becomes a serious issue. If im wrong about this please correct me.

Good thread guys, so whats the ultimate bare knuckle stand up way to fight. There, I think I got it right this time.

Redrooster

[Thai Bri]

Hi Mate,

Trapping exists.... but trapping range? What other technique can't you do in "trapping range?" Like you say, the ridiculous fancy traps are silly, but the odd pinning an arm, or pulling it out of the way prior to bashing someone in the bonce is perfectly good.

Muay Thai clinching. Two fighters of the same standard will nullify each others clinch to an extent. That's why they don't seem to have an effect that much. I have grabbed and kneed untrained people out in the street and down they went. Ouch. Nowadays I wouldn't use it though, because I'd be too busy sticking my fingers into their eyes and shaking their head about.

I don't know about the legaility of head butts in Thailand, but I do know tyhat it can be a great blow. Careful though. Did God really intend your head/brain to be an impact weapon? I have it on good authority that a well known backer of head butts has knocked HIMSELF out on more than one occasion whilst doing them.

I don't know about your figures for the lengths of careers etc. but agree that extreme shin conditioning is a silly idea. If the body part isn't strong enough to cope with being a weapon, then beating it until the pain sensors are dulled is a stupid thing to do. I do use shin kicking, but the only conditioning I get is from bag work. No cola bottles, baseball bats or banana trees for me.

[gabbah]

Good thread guys, so whats the ultimate bare knuckle stand up way to fight. There, I think I got it right this time.

I think the training method is just as important to ask about... For instance, I have thought about that in a bareknuckle fight, it might be better to use only the jab to setup ELBOWS, headbutts, clinch and then knees. Because the hand is fragile with all the small bones, but elbows and knees are not. So throw train to throw elbows as effectively as boxers throw hooks and uppercuts.
But how can one train elbows and still keep the training "live"? It's not as easy as training punching, where you can have big gloves. I'm not sure how well elbow padding helps in hard sparring...

And were not even going to talk about training groinkicks and eye gouging live.
So it seems the training method might limit what techniques should be included in "real fighting", since some can be trained more live than others.

If there was a fighting system that was boxing + thaiclinching + thai knees + elbows + some basic stand up wrestling I think I would like that for unarmed SD as a base.

[gabbah]

On a similar note I would like to ask the members of this board about Muay Thai clenching techniques. I watch these fights and notice the fighters when clenched love to throw knees to the body but Ive never seen one have a dramatic effect. it seems to me thats alot of energy being expended for little gain. They seem to be glancing blows, is the idea to catch the under side of the rib cage and break some bottom ribs?

See what Thai Bri said. After all, the same thing could be said about the kicks in a thai boxing match and punching in a boxing match... not many techniques thrown actually produce significant damage. And that's because they're so even skillwise. If one of them was on a level just one step lower he would be smashed in short time.
So someone who doesn't know how to defend knees would first take one or two, and then probably move away to pull the head out... and eat a fat knee to the face on the way out.

[WildWest.]

I agree with whats been said about quick, strong and effective striking techniques once in a street fight. Don't under estimate the palm strike, it can really mess up someones day.
Maybe I'm wrong, but we're taught that locking techniques i.e arm bars, wrist locks, chokes etc are only effective once you're whacked your opponent a few times first and softened him up then, instead of belting him into submission you can inflict a different type of pain into his day. Obviously this depends on the situation.

[Redrooster]

---"If there was a fighting system that was boxing + thaiclinching + thai knees + elbows + some basic stand up wrestling I think I would like that for unarmed SD as a base"

Exactly my conclusion, adding butts to the mix.

Ive recently been to a muay thai trainer, and find that alot of the leg work is hard on my joints. Ive been to the wing chun school and while I think some of it has merit. "patty cake" for a year isnt happening with me.

Im now getting readyto start boxing. Where I should have started all along. Bruce Lee saw the light.

Given my age ,a lack of ability to see great without my glasses, and love of the idea, Ive decided to focus on in-fighting. The style of Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, young Mike Tyson . Emphasis on hooks to the body and side of the jaw. Hitting the jaw directly with straights is what breaks hands. Add elbows, butts, trapping etc..

So, if we look at the different ranges...


Long: Straight lead with strong hand in front ala Bruce Lees Jeet Kune Do, the idea is to close the front eye, create cuts or break the blood capsule in the nose.

Muay Thai kick to the leg/thigh. Could stop the fight right there, at least soften an opponent up, cause them to bring their gaurd down.

Boxing range:

Boxing- hands and footwork. enough said.

Inside range: let the fun begin. Alot of training emphasis will be placed on closing the gap correctly. A smothering defense should get the job done. There is a great upcoming British fighter in the lower wieght that has an outstanding somthering defense, thaibri do you know his name?, I really should have taped his bout on HBO. Once inside hooks both standard and shovel , uppercuts, elbows, thai knees-body and head, butts.

Thoughts on this?

Also does anyone know of any books, dvd's etc concentrating on in-fighting?

Thanks DB

[Thai Bri]

You need to take a look here mate

https://www.senshido.com

Check out the Shredder.

[gabbah]

You need to take a look here mate

https://www.senshido.com

Check out the Shredder.

I found no info on what the shredder is, except for that picture... seems like eye gouging and such, but I guess there's more to it?

[Thai Bri]

There is alot more to it. Log in there and ask 'em!

[gabbah]

There is alot more to it. Log in there and ask 'em!

They want me to pay first

[WildWest.]

The Shredder sounds very effective. Something to learn here I think.

[Thai Bri]

You don't have to pay to get into their forum do you?

[gabbah]

I thought you knew what the shredder is Thai Bri, since you promote it?
What do I have to do to get you talking about it? Maybe attack you with some flailing wing chun??? Is THAT what you want?? If I use it on you you WILL die, trust me!!!

[Thai Bri]

I DO know about it. But it's hard to put into words at the best of times.

It's described on the site better than I could. As far as I know you don't have to pay to be on the site.